Abu Muqawama retains its autonomy and the views and beliefs expressed within the blog do not reflect those of CNAS.
"Your daughter is beautiful" and other things you should not say to a rural Pashtun
June 17, 2009 | Posted by Abu Muqawama - 4:01pm |
25 Comments
Well, at least he didn't grab one of the male kids around the waist or shoulders and give him a noogie...
Does this qualify as "Smart Power"?
I can't help but imagine the scene in the restaurant from the Blues Brothers with John Belushi asking "How much for the leetle girl? The women"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMo9BDnaTLE
Now I will never be able see Holbrooke without seeing John Belushi...maybe that's not such a bad thing.
holy crap. not impressive lol. visitor at 5:14, this must be a generational divide. for me it's "very nice, how much?" a la Borat.
Off Topic Iran
Amhadinejad's milions of photoshopped supporters:
http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/06/17/ahmadinejads-millions-of-photosho...
When I google "abu muqawama," I don't find this place on the first page. See if you can get one of the IT guys floating around CNAS to fix that.
I had some reservations about Holbrooke. I'm not sure if this should confirm them or if I should give him the benefit of the doubt. But for someone that is supposed to be spearheading our diplomatic efforts in that region, this is a pretty big gaffe.
The article didn't catch the rest of Holbrooke's quote. When he realized what he had done, he calmly introduced himself and continued, "Now there are people who would pay a lot of money for that information...I wanna meet your daughter...with your permission...and under the supervision of your Family...with all respect." He'll make a fine envoy.
@ Clemenza
Are u serious?
in late 2004 i was on a road trip throughout paktia with a bunch of local pushtuns. they were very friendly and jocular and took me to all these little villages. one night i asked them which part of afghanistan had the most beautiful women. they all got silent and stern and finally one of them said "if you try to have an afghan gilrfriend we will kill you." i tried to explain that in every country men have a theory about where the most beautiful women are, but he just repeated "if you try to have an afghan gilrfriend we will kill you."
As posted over at Ghosts: Surely there should be a instruction manual for local customs being handed out to all military folks? "Pashtuns for dummies"/ "Dos and donts during chai"? Old Blue, Im looking at you.
Wayne Z: That's a line said by Michael Corleone in the Sicilian village in the God Father. Peter Clemenza is the Don's main henchman.
If she's hot, she's hot; you gotta call a dime when you see one.
Clemenza: Nope. You can ask about "family" but not specifically about female members of the family - even in casual conversation and out of concern, unless you like blood feuds.
Stephen Tankel at ICSR's new blog picked up on this too
http://www.icsr.info/blog-item.php?id=59
Surely there should be a instruction manual for local customs being handed out to all military folks?
There is, I've read it. All you need in order to run a shura. When to serve tea, where people sit, what that means about hierarchy, whether to take notes, how to speak, where to put your interpreter, acceptable small talk... very useful. I think I might start using it to run meetings over here as well :)
This story proves that sites like A.L.L. are really needed. Cf. A.L.L., Chapter 3: Culture (Lesson 3A: Chai and the Pashtunwali) ...
"Conversation must always start with small talk. It is considered very polite to ask about a man's family, but not to ask specifically about a female member of his family. To ask a man how his mother is doing is considered very rude. Asking about a wife or daughter is actually dangerous. Pleasantries often include a query as to the health of the family, and how various minor things about their life may be going such as things about their house, crops, or business."
http://afghanlessons.blogspot.com/2009/05/chapter-3-culture-lesson-3a-ch...
This may help, too:
General McChrystal's New Way of War
Gen. McChrystal's decision to set up a Pakistan Afghanistan Coordination Cell means creating a corps of roughly 400 officers who will spend years focused on Afghanistan, shuttling in and out of the country and working on those issues even while they are stateside.
Today, units typically spend six to 12 months in a war zone, and officers typically spend only a couple years in command before getting a new assignment. This undermines the continuity needed to prevail in complex environments like Afghanistan or Iraq. Too often, just when soldiers figure out what's going on they are shipped back home and neophytes arrive to take their place. Units suffer a disproportionate share of casualties when they first arrive because they don't have a grip on local conditions.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124520391183921807.html
Pakistan Afghanistan Coordination Cell
That's a really good play by McChrystal (thanks for cheering up elf this AM to Positroll).
As far as Holbrookes gaffe....
You have got to be f***ing kidding. That actually beats HRC gaffe in Mexico..
"Msgr. Monroy took Mrs. Clinton to the famous image of Our Lady of Guadalupe, which had been previously lowered from its usual altar for the occasion.
After observing it for a while, Mrs. Clinton asked “who painted it?” to which Msgr. Monroy responded "
Maybe they're not the brilliant intellectuals some people thought they voted for, on the other hand I guess this would qualify as "tough diplomacy".
Actually, Im not sure mrs. Clintons question is such a gaffe, elf. It can be read as a polite intelligent question, from someone who wishes to show she wanted to learn. Opening dialogue etc. As any art-buff will tell you, its a pleasure to be able to answer questions of something you like. (Was she suppose to genuflect?")
Unless theres a point I miss wich is uniquely Mexican. ..? (Im invited there next year, looking forward to touching america.)
@Fnord
It belies her expertise. Should she be expected to know the exact history of "Our Lady?" Perhaps not, but you bet your ass a staffer should have known. It might have a little something to do with its alleged status as a divine appartition and not a painting. Whoops.
As for Holbrooke, I'm reading Sam Powers "A Problem from Hell: America and the Age of Genocide" and it's certainly taken the luster off Holbrooke, with a power-sander.
There should be a very simple rule...if Matt knows not to say it to Pashtuns, then the special envoy or whatever title Holbrooke has taken absolutely must know better
"As for Holbrooke, I'm reading Sam Powers "A Problem from Hell: America and the Age of Genocide" and it's certainly taken the luster off Holbrooke, with a power-sander."
if this keeps up, i'm going to have no one left to like.
More on the Pakistan Afghanistan Coordination Cell :
Carte Blanche for New U.S. Commander in Afghanistan - NYTimes.com
www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/world/asia/11command.html?pagewanted=all
Lawrence of Arabia on Tribes
http://blog.stevenpressfield.com/2009/06/lawrence-of-arabia-on-tribes/
Organisational background + discussion:
http://usacac.army.mil/BLOG/blogs/reflectionsfromfront/archive/2009/05/0...
Funny:
New US commander in Afghanistan assembles team of assassins
www.cubanow.net/pages/loader.php?sec=12&t=2&item=7194
Fnord,
Partly my fault - I accidentally clipped off the answer "God". Not taking a stand here...but it is a very important site historically and religiously for the Mexicans - for one thing the narrative is The Lady appeared to an Indian and an ordinary peasant. You can imagine the significance. I am just pointing out, either her or the staff should have given her the thumbnail sketch.
I think HRC is actually quite intelligent, but she was ill served in this case. Of course it's probably a bit of sour grapes on my part (mea culpa) for the Repubs being accused of being all thumbs (not without some justice).
Back on thread - does he realize he'd be in real deep doo doo if he didn't have security.
No one read this article, did they? The next paragraph explained that the young women worked for the Pakistani security service...the setting is in a refugee camp. He could have made a mistake or been pointing out that an interloper was among them...
Add your comment