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On Taking Sides ... and Glass Houses
Rep. Peter King wonders whose side Eric Holder is on with respect to the investigation into alleged torture conducted by our intelligence agencies. That's all fine and good, and I am glad Rep. King is so tough on Islamist terrorism, but I imagine there are those in the United Kingdom who wonder whose side King was on in the 1980s when he shamelessly carried the PIRA's water.
"You will have thousands of lives that will be lost, and the blood will be on Eric Holder's hands," he said.
Civilians killed during The Troubles (1968-1998): 1,857 (and an additional 705 from an army currently fighting alongside U.S. Marines in Helmand Province, Afghanistan)
Given the source I'd be more
Given the source I'd be more troubled if the Attorney General received at compliment.
Newsflash: Politicians are
Newsflash: Politicians are hypocrites by nature. More at 11.
It should be noted that King
It should be noted that King isn't just tough on Islamic terrorism--he appears to be tough on Islamic anything. He tried, for instance, to get some very innocuous Islamic ads pulled from the New York subway last year.
Yes, but would Holder have
Yes, but would Holder have approved of the way that the British kept the IRA in check? (Note that 9/11seems to have dried up their funding, and as good rent-seekers, they moved from the bullet to the ballot)
Marc
@ Andrew Exum I'm not sure I
@ Andrew Exum
I'm not sure I follow the logic here. Are you saying that because Rep King supported (verbally) the IRA during the 1980's that he shouldn't be allowed to defend the CIA agents who interrogated Takfiri terrorists?
From the point of view of an American congressman I don't think that you can draw a moral equivelance between the IRA and Al Qaida. After all the IRA never attacked the USA.
Oh and speaking of glass
Oh and speaking of glass houses:
''There is nothing more important than protecting the identities of CIA officers. So I need everybody to be clear: We will protect your identities and your security as you vigorously pursue your missions.''—Barack Obama at CIA headquarters, April 2009.
"Ultimately, the decisions on who is investigated and who is prosecuted are up to the attorney general. . . . The president thinks that Eric Holder, who he appointed as a very independent attorney general, should make those decisions." - Bill Burton, Barack Obama's press secretary at Martha's Vineyard, August 2009.
Way to stay classy Obama.
Oh and speaking of glass
Oh and speaking of glass houses:
''There is nothing more important than protecting the identities of CIA officers. So I need everybody to be clear: We will protect your identities and your security as you vigorously pursue your missions.''—Barack Obama at CIA headquarters, April 2009
"ultimately, the decisions on who is investigated and who is prosecuted are up to the attorney general. . . . The president thinks that Eric Holder, who he appointed as a very independent attorney general, should make those decisions." - Bill Burton, Barack Obama's deputy press secretary, Martha's Vineyard, August 2009
Way to stay classy Obama .
You have firm evidence in
You have firm evidence in hand that you know who Al Qaida are, who directs them, and why they would choose so accurately and execute so well an attack that has far more hallmarks of western society than those of the east? Why haven't you shared it with the rest of the world?
Consider, Wayne, the fact that the CIA grew out of the same currents of history that resulted in the creation of Israel. Do you find it difficult to understand why there is controversy over the actions of the Bush administration, or why Israel no longer can depend upon unquestioned support by the US?
Resistance comes from oppression, and its power is not retained by those who act because of it, despite claims of legitimacy enshrined in ideological identification. What motivated the freedom fighters of the Second World War (ah, for the days when wars could be numbered thus) now motivates the oppressed of "Third World" regions.
To continue in the belief that one has righteousness on one's side when the motivational force has moved on is not just a weakness that over the long run defeats, it is the reason cognitive dissonance ensues. Descendants of the WWII commandos became the Nazis of the 21st Century. The rule of law isn't a construct of the "ruling class" to be used at will or abandoned; it is an equally powerful force as that which motivates the oppressed and derives from the same source.
Top prosecutor orders probe interrogations; Obama shifts onus. CNN.com
The move comes in the wake of criticism of questionable CIA interrogation techniques, such as waterboarding and the transfer of detainees to countries where torture is common.
Holder said in a written statement: [...] "There is no tension between strengthening our national security and meeting our commitment to the rule of law, and these new policies will accomplish both."
Among the findings: U.S. interrogators threatened a captured al Qaeda operative with a power drill to try to scare him into giving up information. Interrogators also threatened to kill another top captive's children in an effort to get the men to talk, the report says.
I would add that accountability is essential for integrity, no matter at what level of life issues are engaged. In my opinion, those who "strayed off center" were at the highest level, not individual actors now to be discounted as having misapplied directives.
"One of the sources, a former intelligence official who is familiar with the report, said that while the report "reaffirmed" the interrogation program, it "also showed some had strayed off center."
I would add that accountability is essential for integrity, no matter at what level of life issues are engaged. In my opinion, those who "strayed off center" were at the highest level, not individual actors now to be discounted as having misapplied directives.
"One of the sources, a former intelligence official who is familiar with the report, said that while the report "reaffirmed" the interrogation program, it "also showed some had strayed off center."
How's that renditions
How's that renditions program going?
Hypocrites, all.
Hypocrites, all.
OFF TOPIC R.I.P Senator
OFF TOPIC
R.I.P Senator Kennedy.
I think King has cooled a
I think King has cooled a bit on the 'ra. But, as Andy says, virtually all politicians (and indeed, people) are hypocritical.
In fact they're often hypocritical on the nature of terrorists they support or are ambivalent to. We could talk about the contras, irgun, the ANC or indeed the old IRA as organisations which had been considered terrorist by some but which have gained retrospective support in large parts of the West.
Armed Liberal - one point I would like to make. The last IRA ceasefire started in 1998, three years before 9/11. The peace process itself which lead to that had begun in the early 90s.
"From the point of view of
"From the point of view of an American congressman I don't think that you can draw a moral equivelance between the IRA and Al Qaida. After all the IRA never attacked the USA."
WTF does that have to do with moral anything ? Hamas hasn't carried out an attack on the US either.
Rather than forcing you to take up a defense of them though, I'd refer you though to 2 points in the article. One, that the IRA bombed NATO bases and two, that this guy got thrown out of an IRA member trial for being "clearly a collaborator".
The IRA shooting someone in Delaware tomorrow wouldn't change what that makes him.
I'm really confused - do you
I'm really confused - do you want us to be nice to terrorists or not? Secretary Clinton was for us releasing hundreds of terrorists as part of the NI peace process but also thinks terrorists should die in jail.
Will our new overlords please tell us what to do.
Kilo I dont really care for
Kilo
I dont really care for King's politics, so dont have a great wish to defend him. However there are numerous and substantial behavioural differences between the IRA and Al Quaeda. One could support one armed group and not another, no?
One could certainly have supported the ANC and not supported Al Quaeda, for example.
What a bastard Peter King
What a bastard Peter King is. I mean all the English did was occupy the country and attempt to destroy the religion, language and culture.
Quite right Sean - in fact
Quite right Sean - in fact the Scots helped them! Even worse....
And we did the same to Afghanistan - I wonder why support for the war there is faltering?
Secretary Clinton's husband
Secretary Clinton's husband pardoned Puerto Rican terrorists to help her electoral chances in New York. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Just ask Folk Bernadotte, scratch that, you can't ask him anything because Israeli terrorists murdered him.
AM takes swings at King because he can and because he does not have the balls to note the hypocrisy of Jewish members of Congress who are outraged about CIA torture but support Israeli crimes against Palestinians (in prison or otherwise).
Surely, what's most
Surely, what's most significant about the Atlantic article is the lack of heavy weaponry and large scale "collateral damage". Two other points of interest: firstly that this story was first broken by the BBC and secondly - according to the Daily Telegraph - that the FRU was allegedly re-formed in Baghdad.
"What a bastard Peter King
"What a bastard Peter King is. I mean all the English did was occupy the country and attempt to destroy the religion, language and culture."
I've written half a dozen things only to delete them but ultimately it comes to this: terrorism ain't the way forward, Ireland in '68 weren't Ireland under Cromwell and most importantly, life now ain't bad so stop stirring because the last thing Ulster, or Ireland, needs is more violence- from any side.
Well said Guy.
Well said Guy.
vimothy - would you talk a
vimothy - would you talk a bit about labor and capitol?
vimothy: would you talk a
vimothy: would you talk a bit about labor and capital?
Your right Guy. Northern
Your right Guy. Northern Ireland was a wonderful place to be Catholic in 1968. There were no civil rights problems, the RUC was protective of the Catholic minority, never had a shoot to kill policy and Frank Patterson played on every radio. Did everyone enjoy Marching Season in July?
Did I say Northern Ireland
Did I say Northern Ireland was wonderful in 1968? No. It wasn't (and the UK Government was shocking in the way it ignored affairs in N. Ireland). But things changed. King supported the IRA till 2001. Are saying N. Ireland in 2001 was like N. Ireland in 1968? Its not perfect even now but terrorism is not the way forward, and terrorism was what King advocated till 2001. The Troubles were awful, nobody should want them back.
Not meaning to nick pick,
Not meaning to nick pick, but if King supported the IRA then he certainly didnt advoate terrorism until 2001, as they had stopped their campaign in 1998... and in fact had been on ceasefire for most of the time since 1994.
So I suppose he supported their campaign until late 90s.. at which point the british govt was still directing loyalist death squads. Although you are right that in many ways of course NI had changed since the late 60s in terms of reduction of discrimination etc
"However there are numerous
"However there are numerous and substantial behavioural differences between the IRA and Al Quaeda. One could support one armed group and not another, no?"
Not without being a supporter of a terrorist organisation, no.
You could also support one military dictatorship but not another. However, pointing out how there is not a moral equivalence between any of them and the Nazis is still just a fkn retarded argument.
This King idiot, who clearly supported a terrorist organisation made headlines with the quote "You have to wonder which side they're on" when talking about investigations of mistreatment of terrorist suspects. If you think the merits of pointing out what cock this makes him warrants a debate you'll need to have it with someone else.
I've got a discussion about Dick Cheney's thoughts on gun safety to get to.
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