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Pakistan Dispatch - Conspiracy fun
Londonstani spent the evening putting his very rusty Pashtu and Punjabi to the test talking conspiracies.
At the end of a long series of conversations it turns out that, basically, conspiracy theories are a sort of sport. You can find one for pretty much any point of view you want to take.
When it came to the attacks at the army head quarters in Rawalpindi, the theories range from the predicatable; that the Indians are working through the Taliban to take revenge for the attack on their embassy in Kabul, to the truly Machiavellian; that the army staged the attack itself to build up public support for a huge coming campaign in Waziristan. Another military-based theory states that the army knew the attack was coming, but let it happen in the hope it would generate public sympathy behind their opposition to the Kerry Lugar bill, which they feel is an American-civil government plot to curtail their power.
Some of the "real" Pakistanis kind enough to share their theories: 
Now, the question really seems to be; what came first, the conspiracy culture or the vague official pronouncements?
Interior Minister Rehman Malik visiting wounded from the Peshawar: "Everyone knows who carried out these terrible attacks. We all know they are supported by outside powers and their various agencies." - Just for those of us who aren't totally clear, why not just spell it out? If they are killing your civilians through proxies, surely you can afford to risk annoying them by actually naming them?
An editorial in the Dawn newspaper however is totally missing out on the fun and trying to get all like.. serious, or something.
The question is, why in the face of such a threat and destruction do we casually steer away our intellectual and emotional energies towards abstract and rhetorical issues such as ‘sovereignty’ and ‘self-reliance,’ when we as a nation have exhibited such helplessness in addressing and arresting the more tangible threat and issue of mass terrorism?
Over and over again, many Pakistanis, their politicians, their glorified media personalities and holy men have tried to ignore the issue, treating it as a secondary phenomenon compared to the ‘more pressing issue’ of Asif Ali Zardari’s wealth, Altaf Hussain’s self-imposed exile and Meera’s domestic ordeal - as if trying their level best to obscure the issue of terrorism only because the bloodshed that takes place in the name of God might ridicule the already ridiculous notions of political Islam that the state of Pakistan has been flaunting for so many years now.
We all know about the why’s and who’s of terrorism in Pakistan. And yet, those who were lucky to survive terrorist attacks, or those whose loved ones were maimed so mercilessly in these attacks, we will go on wagging our fingers telling them they died because we are not good Muslims, or they died because certain elusive enemies of Islam are out to destroy our country and religion.
The hunt for the identities of the well-known yet unnamed perpetrators continues...
What are they cooking, is it
What are they cooking, is it tasty? There's Halal shops around here...
We all know it was T.H.E.M.
We all know it was T.H.E.M.
There cooking T.H.E.M??
There cooking T.H.E.M??
Well no wonder T.H.E.Y are pissed....
Elf, This is called boti
Elf,
This is called boti kabab.
Manchurian meat pie, is what
Manchurian meat pie, is what the implication is... aka the Mukden Incident.
So, it's always a speculative possibility, that events as seen and reported are themselves part of a complex wag-the-dog-and-pony-show theatrical presentation - we see those in the U.S. on a regular basis, though.
High blowback risk with that kind of thing, isn't there? That's why it's probably not as common as the classical wild-eyed conspiracy theorists believe... although some say that the wild-eyed conspiracy theorists are themselves disinformation plants aimed at discrediting more legitimately embarrassing topics via the tactic of association... the war of the puppet front groups.
A conspiracy theory within a conspiracy theory, infinite regress... you can go on and on with that kind of thinking. Or you can end up believing in your own PR... either way, it's the psych ward for you.
Here's a realistic not-so-covert plan: promote hemp (cannabis) cultivation for the Afghanis - mainly because the market will be more local, and it'll cut off some of the Taliban funding, and it is more plausible as an opium replacement than most alternatives, economy-wise. They'll need irrigation systems and solar-powered water pumps, though, and civilian assistance...
To meet that need, we can ship out most the Washington-based State Department to Afghanistani villages, and strip half the soldiers (60,000) from Iraq and send them there to provide support. Bring in a international joint force of Indian, Chinese and Russian troops to replace them in Iraq - if they want the oil deals, tell them to ante up some Oil Protection Force troops.
Just get it done before everyone nukes each other, is my advice.
:LOL: Classic. Londonstani
:LOL: Classic. Londonstani dear Bhaiya . . . you could have added a couple more good ones.
"Here's a realistic not-so-covert plan: promote hemp (cannabis) cultivation for the Afghanis - mainly because the market will be more local, and it'll cut off some of the Taliban funding, and it is more plausible as an opium replacement than most alternatives, economy-wise." Not so good an idea. Will make Afghanistan dependent of foreign largess indefinitely.
"They'll need irrigation systems and solar-powered water pumps, though, and civilian assistance..." Nice.
"To meet that need, we can ship out most the Washington-based State Department to Afghanistani villages" Very Nice :-)
"and strip half the soldiers (60,000) from Iraq and send them there to provide support." Not nice. Keep the current withdrawal schedule from 11 brigades (currently) to 6 brigades. At the peak of the surge, there were 24 US brigades plus 5 non US brigades (assuming that the UK was contributing 1 brigade versus two brigades.)
"Bring in a international joint force of Indian, Chinese and Russian troops to replace them in Iraq - if they want the oil deals, tell them to ante up some Oil Protection Force troops."" Bad idea. Remember that the current US troops are "advise and assist" troops. Other countries cannot replicate what they do. It would take them years to develop that capability (including Iraqi cultural and ISF organizational experience.)
India, China and Russia could contribute a lot more to Afghanistan; and to Somalia, Yemen, Sudan, Zaire, Congo, and other challenges.
gd - I'm not sure if you've
gd - I'm not sure if you've missed the boat on this one, but they've already got that angle covered. There are forests of ten-foot marijuana plants in Helmand.
Truth is stranger than sarcasm?
To Londonstani: "Now, the
To Londonstani:
"Now, the question really seems to be; what came first, the conspiracy culture or the vague official pronouncements?"
What came first, was us being the subject and source of conpiracies being spun in our neighbouring countries, for a long time. Conspiracy culture runs in our DNA, because we instintively know how exactly its done-the plauseable denial; the non-state actors, the foreign funding-its a game we have played long and hard. The goal posts have shifted into our own territory now and we are screaming murder.
The official pronouncements are deliberately vague. For although we know that the planners and perpetrators of terrorist acts are our own, we also know, all too well, how disgruntled armed groups with trans border ties can be plied with money and resources to cause mayhem in a not too stable and not too friendly state, next door.These prouncements are meant to say "touche" we see you pulled it off this time, and we hope you will understand when we pay you in kind.
is that hat the pakistani
is that hat the pakistani equivalent of a tinfoil hat?
Past is
Past is prologue...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JktcQ2A32cU&feature=related
Meanwhile, the
Meanwhile, the country-wich-shall-not-be-named is getting ready to bomb Quom: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/11/hillary-clinton-iran-sanctions
I wonder how a agressive Iran fits in with Mc Chrystals plans? Methinks western afghanistan might become tricky after a bombing by the US proxy crusader force...
Mc Chrystal on Iran:
Mc Chrystal on Iran: http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/10/05/is_mcchrystal_dovish_on_iran
Retired General Anthony
Retired General Anthony Zinni is one of a number of retired generals who have taken to the airwaves insisting more troops should be sent. “The risk if you take too much time is you look like you’re dithering and both our allies and enemies will wonder if we’re really committed,” he warned.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6869503.e...
Why increase troops and not use more UAV's, Spectre and AC-130U Spooky variants and the B-52's? Wouldn't it be a good time to start carpet bombing again???
Additionally it would be a good idea to clean up some of our old reserves and dump all remaining napalm the US has on the Pakistan / Afghanistan Boarder, since this has become a migration area for the Taliban.
http://tchester.org/fb/issues/napalm.html
Burn them all....burn the vegetation, buildings and everything in that region, so we can see them crossing the boarder with the UAV's / Spectre and AC-130U Spooky variants ....it will be like shooting fish in a barrel.
We did it back in 2001....why not start it up again and "punch them right in the baby maker!"
Anyone care to comment?
Is that cat on a stick
Is that cat on a stick Haboob is cooking ?
Paki's are insane and will
Paki's are insane and will self destruct in the near future. Meaning, in the next year, they will be involved in a full fledge civil war and mass destruction will occur everyone. People will die in the tens of thousands. This is fact and this is how the cards will play out. They are a self-fulling prophecy.
America must restrict
America must restrict muslims, especially Pakisistanis, from emigrating to our country. These people are a curse upon whatever land they reside.
Najibullah Zazi was free to roam our country because of his refugee status. We don't need anymore of his kind. Explosions in Rawalpindi or explosions in NY? Which do you prefer?
"America must restrict
"America must restrict muslims, especially Pakisistanis, from emigrating to our country. These people are a curse upon whatever land they reside."
Hmm, its weird, im my city Oslo there are about 6% pakistanis, and this has so far failed to cause one single explosion the last 20 years. Their current young generation is percentagewise more lawabiding then norwegians (mainly due to little drinking) and their daughters have a general very high level of education. Back in the 80s, they saved the concept of the small foodstore, and have introduced lots of new food to the previously deadly dull norwegian cuisine. In Oslo, pakistani girls are near majority in law and medicine studies. Ooooh, what a curse.
The jihadi raid on
The jihadi raid on Pakistan's GHQ prompted immediate discussion on our blog and others, complete with conspiracy theories (the army did it to prepare public opinion for the waziristan operatiion, the CIA did it to prepare the army opinion for the same, the jihadis did it, T.H..E.Y did it, and so on). I am posting my comment (posted in response to the theory that the army arranged this "show") and look forward to your comments.
Dr T,
I assume you are asking about the GHQ siege. I think the commando action sounds like it was capable and well executed. You are being cynical about why the suicide bomber did not blow himself up, but it is not impossible to kill a suicide bomber before he explodes. Commandos executing such a raid are always taking a risk, but there is always the chance of success. This is what they are trained to do. They can use stun grenades, which can disorient and stun the terrorists for a few moments. In that time, the commando sharpshooters have to shoot the terrorists without killing hostages. The first reaction of the terrorists is to fire back at the attackers, not to turn and start shooting hostages. Anyway, in our history, we have had good operations (this one and the one in lal masjid) and really bad screw-ups (the Pan Am hijacking in the eighties when the commandos seem to have killed more hostages than the hijackers managed to kill).
The bottom line is, even I find it hard to believe that anyone in the army would be as stupid as to have these martyrdom seekers attack their own GHQ. I think this was a bona-fide terrorist attack. Its a huge embarrassment for the army that they got into even the outer buildings of GHQ. Still, once they had been embarrassed, the army did take the risk of having the hostages killed and went for an early commando raid and as such raids go, they seem to have succeeded.
I think the more important thing is to notice that the person leading the terrorists is supposed to be the same SOB who attacked the Sri-lankan cricket team in April. Why was he still at large? renting houses, arranging white vans with army license plates, getting terrorists in place for a well planned raid? This is not a good reflection on the state of law enforcement and anti-terrorist operations in the country.
Also, this is old news for many of us, but worth pointing out that this jihadi terrorist, like all the others now being hunted or asked to go to Indian Kashmir ASAP, was initially trained by our own blessed intelligence agencies and their pet proxies. And he and his ilk are able to survive until today because parts of the jihadi infrastructure (supporters, sympathizers, financiers, facilitators) share space with "India-specific terrorists" and still do not face a situation where the entire network is under attack from the state. More important, the educated public in Pakistan is still confused about what is going on. The army's powerful psyops operation is very quick to manufacture outrage about Hussain Haqqani or Asif Zardari, but has not made a systematic effort to disown and attack the armed jihadis. Their patrons (like Hameed Gul and company) and bullshit artists like Ahmed Qureshi and Zaid Hamid are still being invited on the media to cloud the issue with conspiracy theories about Indian hand and American embassy staffers and their cars. This is a very serious handicap because it means that "moderate islamists" (a large constituency in educated Pakistan) and ordinarly Pakistanis in general are still not clear about who the enemy is. Without the cooperation of the general public, no anti-terrorist campaign can succeed.
Having said that, I would also add that I continue to believe that the longer term trend is clearly against the jihadis. There is just no way that the "settled areas" of Pakistan will opt for taliban style rule. The hardcore jihadi enterprise is not compatible with survival in the modern world and will eventually be confined to places like Waziristan and isolated small groups (the islamist equivalent of the Baader Meinhof gang and the Red brigades). All the above comments are part of the messy mechanism of getting from the age of Hameed Gul and General Mahmud to the age of co-existence with India and the modern world.
Omar
Too bad the Dutch don't have
Too bad the Dutch don't have the same perspective, since they currently have a couple terrorists running around in their country who they refuse to extradite... Sounds like a good theme for a book to "snatch & grab" in Europe... even real life. Hummmm....
We just sit back, let them
We just sit back, let them ...no I said them not "T.H.E.M" cook, let the Norse and the Irish be the bartenders..and let the Pakistani's be the lawyers and the doctors, run the small stores...don't drink much...
WAIT A MINUTE!!!
"Their current young generation is percentagewise more lawabiding then norwegians (mainly due to little drinking) and their daughters have a general very high level of education. Back in the 80s, they saved the concept of the small foodstore, and have introduced lots of new food to the previously deadly dull norwegian cuisine. In Oslo, pakistani girls are near majority in law and medicine studies."
IT'S THEM!! IT'S THE JOOOOS!!
Fnord, are you suggesting the Pakistani's are really JOOOISH!!!!
AH HAH!! That explains everything. Now the circle is complete. Everything is connected after all...
Fnord, watch out. Next thing you know they'll be running the banks, newpapers, a secret POG (Paki Occupation Govt) will take over Norway and use Gentile baby blood products in the supposedly Halal Fish you'll be eating for breakfast and the next thing you know be sending Airplanes into your Cod boats. It's all..all..connected.
Americans (and those of u
Americans (and those of u foreigners invested in T-Bills) now here's a real conspiracy, it's called "TARP" or as you may know it, the Bank Bailout.
Now this is how you conduct a conspiracy, you amateurs...
Total Campaign Contributions/Lobbying by TARP Recipients
Now that's depressing. Sheik Issa, even Asif Ali Zardari only takes 10%. Hell even the mob loansharks only take 8 times prime as interest....
@ Londonstani: your
@ Londonstani: your dispatches have been timely and cogent. I am glad you are back to posting here. Appreciate the book list on Pakistan (hey, anyone want to include some fiction, too? I love to read fiction from, well, everywhere).
@ Omar: I'm learning a lot from your comments, thank you.
"The jihadi raid on Pakistan's GHQ prompted immediate discussion on our blog" - have you a blog, Omar? Share the link, please, if you'd like to!
Iraq forces step up oil
Iraq forces step up oil protection, 2009On Iraqi oil protection:
It was only since late 2007, after a joint U.S.-Iraqi project to better protect the pipeline system, when regular oil exports from Ceyhan started to reach the global market. Much of this is attributed to the new Pipeline Exclusion Zones – layers of berm, fences, razor-wire, walls and trenches. Bases and armed guards have been strategically placed throughout the PEZ.
On alternative crops for Afghani villagers:
The solution to Afghanistan's opium?
BBC 2004
"Hemp is a fast growing, legal cash crop that presents a host of immediate benefits to Afghan society, including a potentially lucrative source of foreign exchange earnings. The hemp tree is part of the cannabis species, which includes marijuana plants. However, leaves from hemp trees carry very little of the psychoactive components of the marijuana plant that makes it popular among drug users."
Sure, that means dependence on foreign trade - but who isn't dependent on foreign trade in the modern world?
If you really think that
If you really think that people who grow opium which they are well aware will be made into heroin are not going to grow hemp or cannabis to grow Mary Jane....take a hit off this...
Still, it's a step up....
And while were on the subject..why if we are willing to tolerate the Karzai and crowd being involved in the heroin trade do we give a shit about Jewel smugglers in Nuristan or Lumberjacks in Korengal? WTF is the thought process or value judgment involved?
Per Wapo it's being kicked
Per Wapo it's being kicked around that the Taliban should be treated more like Hezbollah ?
AM Actual is running the govt
NOW we got a conspiracy theory we can work with....
I appreciate Omar's insight
I appreciate Omar's insight upthread.
I wonder if anyone in Pakistan reads Dawn, or if like many Americans they just get it for the sports section, then the entertainment section and the common police blotter stuff, with the editorials left for last. The editorial quoted here seems perfectly sensible to me, but one has to wonder whether Pakistan would be in the shape it's in if that editorial reflected the opinion of many people.
Madhu, My blog is not really
Madhu, My blog is not really a blog. I moderate the email list "asiapeace". The link is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/asiapeace/
feel free to join.
Zathras, a lot of English speaking people read Dawn. but a lot of them do not agree with its liberal and pro-western (or pragmatic and sensible) editorial policy. Educated people prefer the conspiracy theories fashionable in their particular group, at least in Pakistan..
"the Taliban should be
"the Taliban should be treated more like Hezbollah ?"
Actual is running the govt???
Does this mean that Pakistan is a puppet government for Afghanistan now? and Karzai and his brother are actually secretly Pakistani?? And Karzai launders all the drug money at the family restaurant in Maryland?
That explains everything. Now the circle is complete. Everything is connected after all...
I will ponder those theories over a Cat Kebab today.
LOL....
The idea of a LEbanon
The idea of a LEbanon solution to Afghanistan will likely end up as the most viable solution to the problem, creating some sort of Federation of Afghan Provinces". It seems to me the only way out in face of the challenges ahead, it would allow more focus on the various provincial structures, allow for differentiated solutions from province to province, provide some checks and balances and make the Karzai clique quietly more and more obsolete in praxis. Im no Afghanistan expert, but it seems clear to me that a centralized government model just will not hold there, it will be hard enough to make regions sort of kind of function.
Elf: Yeah, theyre the new jooos. Ive been writing on an article for quite some while on islamophobia, and the more I check the structure built up the last 5 years , the more scared I get of the new fascism. Atlas Shrugged by Pamela Geller is referred to by respected newspapers as sources, and she openly cavorts with fascist ideas and flirts with groups that want a Final Solution to the Muslim problem, like the folks at Gates of Vienna.
Fnord, Nice to know that
Fnord,
Nice to know that Pakistani girls are taking over your law and medical schools. However, I wonder if it is an artifact of an affirmative action policy.
In the US, at least, the affirmative action has created an excess of Asian females on the campuses of higher learning. At MIT undergrad, for example, Asian females outnumber every other gender-ethnic group (including white females and Asian males) except for white males. The reason this happens is like this:
Affirmative action says they need to admit all of the qualified "minorities", which include women in the technical fields. So all of the "minority" candidates, who meet qualification, are admited, including women majoring in the technical fields. Since many Asian women have good math training, they're pre-disposed to technical fields, so most of the Asian women candidates fall under the minority status and get admitted.
The white and Asian males now have to compete for the leftover slots. Most of the admited non-minority males, thus, meet the "above qualification" standards.
Thus we have a severe distortion in the demographics of the college campus.
Affirmative action has many unintended consequences.
Jimmy W: No affirmative
Jimmy W: No affirmative action, we reserve that for the Paki boys. Just basically better grades. I guess theres something to say for not letting your daughter out after 9 until she is 37...;-) No, joking, basically it is that most of the asian girls are much more dedicated while the scandics drink their studying days away. (God knows I tried to).
Well first point, I have no
Well first point, I have no problem with whatever form of govt the Afghans choose. And in reality I doubt that Karzai is as bad as being painted....I would believe corruption (grow up) and that he doesn't have that much control.
On this one I'll trust my former comrades in Arms, Old Blue as much as the whole CNAS crew....
Status quo antebellum circa 1973 would work out best I think. I like Wardaks comments that look, the Americans let us have elections (however much they were compromised it wasn't by us) and we got to choose our own govt and it's form. So we don't hate you or really look at you as occupiers.
Give McChrystal what he wants and his 18 mos. Then re-evaluate...
Second point- Sadly that's true but they can be educated that's why I emphasize banging the Takfiri drum.
It's marketing. The fact that it has force and cred going back 1100 years with Islam until today, happens to be true and just and avoids a lot of unnecessary grief. REAL GRIEF. And it works!!
Starting to see word Takfiri seep into public domain (good) Hell Fred Kagan used it last week rebutting Andrew McCarthy on NRO (national review). Kagan was defending the Pope.
Comment by elf gets a real
Comment by elf gets a real conspiracy on October 11, 2009 - 4:00pm
"Now this is how you conduct a conspiracy, you amateurs..."
Speaking of which, recently a left-leaning organisation gave some tax/fraud advice to 2 thoroughly unconvincing actors on hidden camera. This resulted in swift bipartisan support for legislation to prevent government contracts with groups guilty of a range of such improprieties.... which would actually include every defense contractor you've ever heard of.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/09/will-house-defund-acorn-...
I certainly wasn't the only person who noticed how quick that response was and why so many Democrats supported it. Although it does seem a little beyond the Dems to pull off something sneaky, maybe this is the only way they can pass legislation nowdays.
The war on terror is
The war on terror is actually is "A WAR FULL OF ERRORS" which are delibrately generated to create confuse minds in the society like "stunning grenades" . Just look into this "Current Operation in Waziristan" raahe nijaat and the first one "Rahe Raast" the reasons are being generated and then start " show" , it remains continue till the time masters of the puppets becomes happy. For me whatever is happening after 9/11 "which i call the biggest drama ever happened" on the earth, which is also according to the Henery Kessenger doctrine for south asia. is just like to " GIVE THE GUY BAD NAME AND HANG HIM". to destroy the muslims countries (especially Pakistan because of its nuclear arsenal" war potential, so that they never can revive their societies, like they did in the past. The Americans are playing on both the ends, because puppets are available , some needs only CIA operatives "disguised in talibaan" speaking good arabic good pushto inside their circles to convince them to launch jehaad against pakistan, , and at military side of Pakistan" both are being given money and weapons to fight with eachother, and the situation serves multiple pending objectives in the region for the americans.
The whole story can be read by the formula "to find out who is the real beneficiary"
i agree with the good
i agree with the good guy...........................another way to think
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