I don’t imagine you ever counted Russ in the pro-surge column anyway, did you?
Comment by Abu Wisconsin (or as they say down south Wesconsin)on October 26, 2009 - 9:09pm
I wonder if he will resurrect the Iron Brigade to spearhead the resistance, hmmmmmmm.
Comment by Abu Wisconsin (or as they say down south Wesconsin)on October 26, 2009 - 9:12pm
I wonder if he will resurrect the Iron Brigade to spearhead the resistance, hmmmmmmm.
Comment by Abu Visitoron October 26, 2009 - 10:10pm
Where is Scoop Jackson when you need him.
Comment by elfon October 26, 2009 - 10:34pm
Scoops dead.
Then again, so is WFB.
Comment by Abu Visitoron October 26, 2009 - 11:16pm
Hopefully they have panic rooms at CNAS for when the office is overrun by Code Pink.
Comment by diablotakaheon October 27, 2009 - 3:16am
again apologies to ma ex, and against my don't drive angry/drunk principles...
but fuck off. the american people will follow/ are happy to be lead to a good cause. Obama needs to STAND UP (in the maoist sense) and articulate the cause for which people will sacrifice themselves, their families, and buy war bonds.
if he cannot do this, then he must withdraw his troops from harm's way.
I am totally committed to giving the COIN paradigm a try for 18 months. I understand that higher ISAF casualties will result. My countrymen are in theatre.
but if some numb nut senators from the boondocks are able to make political capital out of opposing the deployment of the requisite forces then the whole mission is crippled at birth, fucked beyond redemption.
It should be political suicide for Feingold to oppose this at this stage in the political cycle and the fact that it is not makes me want to just give up, drink more heavily and invest in firearms.
bush's biggest failure in my eyes was his exhortation to go shopping, rather than buy war bonds and prepare for the bleeding out ahead. i fear this is obama's parallel failure moment
here endeth the rant..
Comment by you damn dirty apeson October 27, 2009 - 4:01am
Is it just me or should this guy be a little more worried about loose airliners over Wisconsin (ahem, pilots on laptops?), and the shocking lack of communication in the key early minutes. I mean if that plane was hijacked, it could have hit any number of targets in Minneapolis or Wisconsin, all while the jets were on standby......but I digress (as so many do).....at least he has the juevos to take a stand, I give him credit for that, not that it really makes any difference. Thats why most dems haven't really stepped up to the plate, why alienate people back home by taking a stand that, either way, is gonna piss people off. Just follow the pres, lay low, and let O take the heat if crap hits the fan in the 'A' Stan.
And goodnight from 'The Town'
Comment by Elfon October 27, 2009 - 9:26am
@diablotakahe,
Amen. Amen. And Amen.
Feingold, and for that matter the rest of you safe in the "Heartland" - it's easy to demagogue about events thousands of miles away. Events in NYC and NJ, etc. Not their problem. It gets easier still when every time he, John Murtha and the rest of the Demo-gogues utter such nonsense, here comes another check from moveon.org, Soros, the Koooze nuts et al.
They own these douchebags. This is your governing coalition, Dems. This is the FP equivalent of Albany and Sacramento. This is how Democracies Perish.
As far as the "taking the time to get it right". Absolutely justifiable. It's just that it's Bullshit and everyone knows it that is really pissing us all off. See the Anti-American protests in Astan? Yeah. It's cuz they know we are leaving.
And.We.Are. This guy's not a wartime leader. The USA could be invaded, he'd apologize to the invader. For Chrissake he can't stand up to Chavez.
Turn out the lights and the water, etc. Pack it in it's done.
And get them the fiki outta there. We'll need them later on.
Comment by visitoron October 27, 2009 - 9:49am
Shorter ELF- Write blank checks for Afghanistan forever. How dare anyone question the policies of Bush/Cheney, the last great wartime leaders this country has seen. Anything other than the troop increase is appeasement.
Steve
Comment by Elfon October 27, 2009 - 11:21am
It's over. Just pull out - but the region will plunge into chaos.
GOOD. THAT SHOULD KEEP THEM BUSY KILLING EACH OTHER. Their Divine Mandate and Traditional Occupations.
Bambi as CINC. What were we thinking?!?!!
Comment by Visitoron October 27, 2009 - 11:27am
Elf, I'm not sure that someone who supports an open ended engagement in Afghanistan gets to lecture others on how nations perish, heh. On a serious note though, I've followed Feingold's career over the last few years, and agree or disagree with his ideas, he's actually one of the few people in Washington who stands on principle and he really doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the crazies.
Comment by Tamponatoron October 27, 2009 - 11:29am
RIP to 8 soldiers killed today
Comment by Visitoron October 27, 2009 - 11:40am
Great piece by Aussie McGeough who, if IIRC, has spent a bit of time in country. Apologize if Exum linked to this already.
Before to long these great minded leaders will turn Iraq into a loss. They predicted it, and now they must make sure it happens.
Some of the quotes posted over at Blackfive today:
"The Bush Surge will backfire" - General (RET) Wesley Clark
“I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse.” - Senator Barrak Obama on MSNBC on January 10, 2007
"I believe ... that this war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing anything..." - Harry Reid
"This whole notion that the surge is working is fantasy." - Senator Joe Biden
Comment by Visitoron October 27, 2009 - 2:48pm
Andrew, I'm impressed by your powers of political triangulation and disdain for principle. CNAS made a good choice with you.
Comment by OakFoShoon October 27, 2009 - 7:49pm
Ok, I made a comment earlier under the name "visitor" that has apparently sparked a little debate, and a little anger/cynicism in some comments. I posted at 6:48am, and ended my comment with "and goodnight from 'The Town' as I am located in Oakland." The other visitor comments are not mine, and to clear up any confusion, I felt it important to make my feelings in this debate known.
First, Elf, I think you have taken my comments against one dem's position (Feingold's) on one issue (the A Stan), and used them as a starting point to rip the whole party, and my home state of CA. Grrrrrr!! I will not get into your nock on Sac, but California is clearly the greatest state in the Union for reasons too numerous to state, but again, I digress.......
Second, why cant any of you people see the positives of taking the time necessary to make this decision. BUSH GOT 3 MONTHS for his precious surge that was half the size and scope, not to mention the LOGISTICAL NIGHTMARE, that the A Stan is. How about the fact that this allows the State dept, NATO and the UN the weight they need to push Karzai for credible-ish elections and real reform in the very near future to combat corruption and the like.
All that, and you all fail to mention that new troops ARE NOT REDILY AVAILABLE, and would thus take months to deploy and resource. It does not matter if the decision is made this week, next week, or next month, cause the manpower is just not there, and in about 3 weeks, snow is gonna start falling that most outside the Himalayas cant come close to imagining. The war will grind to a halt for the winter, and that will be that.
As for your anti-O diatribe, I have two questions, what has he done to deserve that, and what did you expect? O has done nothing he did not promise in the campaign. He has used the Bush Admin signed agreement for withdrawal in Iraq, with his own twist on force numbers. Nevertheless its largely Bush's plan. If Iraq fails it will be a result of the fact that the fundamental problems (revenue sharing, oil, Kirkuk, etc) in Iraq have not been solved. Bush's precious surge was supposed to give the Iraqis the time and space necessary to solve these problems, but instead, outside of bringing down violence temporarily, it has just armed sunni militias to the hilt, and thrown money at the problem. In short, progress is UNSUSTAINABLE without real reconciliation that seems as far off as ever.
In the A Stan, he replaced the leadership, announced a new direction, gave an immediate 20,000 troops to secure the election, and started the first comprehensive review of the AfPak region in 30 years. That review is MASSIVE AND ALL ENCOMPASSING. From Iran to India, and everywhere in between, no preverbal stone is being left unturned, and there is no guarantee a decision, for the most part, has not already been made. Again, the lack of a decision provides short term leverage with Karzai (et all) to push him to become a real partner in this war and for reform.
Sheesh! Its like some people thought he was kidding during the campaign. Nope, sorry, he was serious. He may be a little to deliberate and incremental in his decision making for your likes, but he wants to get it right, and Im not gonna hold that against him.
OakFoSho
Post Script: Even though we are 2-5 and on the worst 6 year streak in NFL history, GO RAIDERS!! You see, stubbornness, that could be confused with madness is sometimes acceptable for sports fans, but not for those obsessed with national security and conspiratorial thoughts about the Pres. (Ahem, Elf!)
Comment by diablotakaheon October 27, 2009 - 9:18pm
sigh.
is there a neologism yet which combines the feelings of a hangover with the sheepish trepidation before one reads one's comments made on a blog the night before?
Elf - I do not concur with you yet about Obama. You call him the salesman in a pejorative way, whereas I see that as a strength. There is a place for great inspirational oratory, especially in wartime.
Further, as a citizen in a culture which has consumed the bitter fruits of some impulsive decisions of another great orator (Gallipoli, Greece, Crete, Singapore to name a few) I am on the side of deliberation.
But he does not even seem to be making the case for deliberation at the moment, and the void is being filled by others.
Also Elf, I'd prefer to see Chavez kissing Obama rather than Putin or Hu any day of the week.
Comment by elf is chastisedon October 28, 2009 - 11:58am
OK.
If he actually shows through, and isn't just running the clock, I support my (grrr) Commander in Chief.
I will give the man his chance.
BUT if forced to offer counsel that's not it. My counsel is he's indeed dithering, he's hoping the media focus will change, he's hoping he can relegate it to the back burner and continue of present course. Which BTW is the wisest one. What we've been doing in Afghanistan hasn't done anything for the "people" there. Nope. We did try sorta on the sides.
No what we've been doing is this thing called "war" which isn't - with all apologies to those who think all human affairs should be a govt program - it's war in our own defense, and in particular an economy of force war. There is no right answer, AM himself prior to Humanae Triage posted thus: 10 years, 1 trillion dollars, 5,000 dead (US).
On dithering - it looks like, walks like, talks like...not deliberation but delay.
But God willing he'll step up. Right.
"Further, as a citizen in a culture which has consumed the bitter fruits of some impulsive decisions of another great orator (Gallipoli, Greece, Crete, Singapore to name a few) I am on the side of deliberation."
Yes me too, but this looks more like the indecision by Athens at the gates of Syracuse.
"But he does not even seem to be making the case for deliberation at the moment, and the void is being filled by others."
Yes.
Add your comment
CNAS retains the right to delete comments that include words that incite violence; are predatory, hateful, or intended to intimidate or harass; or degrade people on the basis of gender, race, class, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. In summary, don't be a jerk.
I don’t imagine you ever counted Russ in the pro-surge column anyway, did you?
I wonder if he will resurrect the Iron Brigade to spearhead the resistance, hmmmmmmm.
I wonder if he will resurrect the Iron Brigade to spearhead the resistance, hmmmmmmm.
Where is Scoop Jackson when you need him.
Scoops dead.
Then again, so is WFB.
Hopefully they have panic rooms at CNAS for when the office is overrun by Code Pink.
again apologies to ma ex, and against my don't drive angry/drunk principles...
but fuck off. the american people will follow/ are happy to be lead to a good cause. Obama needs to STAND UP (in the maoist sense) and articulate the cause for which people will sacrifice themselves, their families, and buy war bonds.
if he cannot do this, then he must withdraw his troops from harm's way.
I am totally committed to giving the COIN paradigm a try for 18 months. I understand that higher ISAF casualties will result. My countrymen are in theatre.
but if some numb nut senators from the boondocks are able to make political capital out of opposing the deployment of the requisite forces then the whole mission is crippled at birth, fucked beyond redemption.
It should be political suicide for Feingold to oppose this at this stage in the political cycle and the fact that it is not makes me want to just give up, drink more heavily and invest in firearms.
bush's biggest failure in my eyes was his exhortation to go shopping, rather than buy war bonds and prepare for the bleeding out ahead. i fear this is obama's parallel failure moment
here endeth the rant..
Maoism made simple
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0B_UZNtEk4&feature=player_embedded
Is it just me or should this guy be a little more worried about loose airliners over Wisconsin (ahem, pilots on laptops?), and the shocking lack of communication in the key early minutes. I mean if that plane was hijacked, it could have hit any number of targets in Minneapolis or Wisconsin, all while the jets were on standby......but I digress (as so many do).....at least he has the juevos to take a stand, I give him credit for that, not that it really makes any difference. Thats why most dems haven't really stepped up to the plate, why alienate people back home by taking a stand that, either way, is gonna piss people off. Just follow the pres, lay low, and let O take the heat if crap hits the fan in the 'A' Stan.
And goodnight from 'The Town'
@diablotakahe,
Amen. Amen. And Amen.
Feingold, and for that matter the rest of you safe in the "Heartland" - it's easy to demagogue about events thousands of miles away. Events in NYC and NJ, etc. Not their problem. It gets easier still when every time he, John Murtha and the rest of the Demo-gogues utter such nonsense, here comes another check from moveon.org, Soros, the Koooze nuts et al.
They own these douchebags. This is your governing coalition, Dems. This is the FP equivalent of Albany and Sacramento. This is how Democracies Perish.
As far as the "taking the time to get it right". Absolutely justifiable. It's just that it's Bullshit and everyone knows it that is really pissing us all off. See the Anti-American protests in Astan? Yeah. It's cuz they know we are leaving.
And.We.Are. This guy's not a wartime leader. The USA could be invaded, he'd apologize to the invader. For Chrissake he can't stand up to Chavez.
Turn out the lights and the water, etc. Pack it in it's done.
And get them the fiki outta there. We'll need them later on.
Shorter ELF- Write blank checks for Afghanistan forever. How dare anyone question the policies of Bush/Cheney, the last great wartime leaders this country has seen. Anything other than the troop increase is appeasement.
Steve
It's over. Just pull out - but the region will plunge into chaos.
GOOD. THAT SHOULD KEEP THEM BUSY KILLING EACH OTHER. Their Divine Mandate and Traditional Occupations.
Bambi as CINC. What were we thinking?!?!!
Elf, I'm not sure that someone who supports an open ended engagement in Afghanistan gets to lecture others on how nations perish, heh. On a serious note though, I've followed Feingold's career over the last few years, and agree or disagree with his ideas, he's actually one of the few people in Washington who stands on principle and he really doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the crazies.
RIP to 8 soldiers killed today
Great piece by Aussie McGeough who, if IIRC, has spent a bit of time in country. Apologize if Exum linked to this already.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/afghan-insurgency-g...
Steve
Before to long these great minded leaders will turn Iraq into a loss. They predicted it, and now they must make sure it happens.
Some of the quotes posted over at Blackfive today:
"The Bush Surge will backfire" - General (RET) Wesley Clark
“I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse.” - Senator Barrak Obama on MSNBC on January 10, 2007
"I believe ... that this war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing anything..." - Harry Reid
"This whole notion that the surge is working is fantasy." - Senator Joe Biden
Andrew, I'm impressed by your powers of political triangulation and disdain for principle. CNAS made a good choice with you.
Ok, I made a comment earlier under the name "visitor" that has apparently sparked a little debate, and a little anger/cynicism in some comments. I posted at 6:48am, and ended my comment with "and goodnight from 'The Town' as I am located in Oakland." The other visitor comments are not mine, and to clear up any confusion, I felt it important to make my feelings in this debate known.
First, Elf, I think you have taken my comments against one dem's position (Feingold's) on one issue (the A Stan), and used them as a starting point to rip the whole party, and my home state of CA. Grrrrrr!! I will not get into your nock on Sac, but California is clearly the greatest state in the Union for reasons too numerous to state, but again, I digress.......
Second, why cant any of you people see the positives of taking the time necessary to make this decision. BUSH GOT 3 MONTHS for his precious surge that was half the size and scope, not to mention the LOGISTICAL NIGHTMARE, that the A Stan is. How about the fact that this allows the State dept, NATO and the UN the weight they need to push Karzai for credible-ish elections and real reform in the very near future to combat corruption and the like.
All that, and you all fail to mention that new troops ARE NOT REDILY AVAILABLE, and would thus take months to deploy and resource. It does not matter if the decision is made this week, next week, or next month, cause the manpower is just not there, and in about 3 weeks, snow is gonna start falling that most outside the Himalayas cant come close to imagining. The war will grind to a halt for the winter, and that will be that.
As for your anti-O diatribe, I have two questions, what has he done to deserve that, and what did you expect? O has done nothing he did not promise in the campaign. He has used the Bush Admin signed agreement for withdrawal in Iraq, with his own twist on force numbers. Nevertheless its largely Bush's plan. If Iraq fails it will be a result of the fact that the fundamental problems (revenue sharing, oil, Kirkuk, etc) in Iraq have not been solved. Bush's precious surge was supposed to give the Iraqis the time and space necessary to solve these problems, but instead, outside of bringing down violence temporarily, it has just armed sunni militias to the hilt, and thrown money at the problem. In short, progress is UNSUSTAINABLE without real reconciliation that seems as far off as ever.
In the A Stan, he replaced the leadership, announced a new direction, gave an immediate 20,000 troops to secure the election, and started the first comprehensive review of the AfPak region in 30 years. That review is MASSIVE AND ALL ENCOMPASSING. From Iran to India, and everywhere in between, no preverbal stone is being left unturned, and there is no guarantee a decision, for the most part, has not already been made. Again, the lack of a decision provides short term leverage with Karzai (et all) to push him to become a real partner in this war and for reform.
Sheesh! Its like some people thought he was kidding during the campaign. Nope, sorry, he was serious. He may be a little to deliberate and incremental in his decision making for your likes, but he wants to get it right, and Im not gonna hold that against him.
OakFoSho
Post Script: Even though we are 2-5 and on the worst 6 year streak in NFL history, GO RAIDERS!! You see, stubbornness, that could be confused with madness is sometimes acceptable for sports fans, but not for those obsessed with national security and conspiratorial thoughts about the Pres. (Ahem, Elf!)
sigh.
is there a neologism yet which combines the feelings of a hangover with the sheepish trepidation before one reads one's comments made on a blog the night before?
Elf - I do not concur with you yet about Obama. You call him the salesman in a pejorative way, whereas I see that as a strength. There is a place for great inspirational oratory, especially in wartime.
Further, as a citizen in a culture which has consumed the bitter fruits of some impulsive decisions of another great orator (Gallipoli, Greece, Crete, Singapore to name a few) I am on the side of deliberation.
But he does not even seem to be making the case for deliberation at the moment, and the void is being filled by others.
Also Elf, I'd prefer to see Chavez kissing Obama rather than Putin or Hu any day of the week.
OK.
If he actually shows through, and isn't just running the clock, I support my (grrr) Commander in Chief.
I will give the man his chance.
BUT if forced to offer counsel that's not it. My counsel is he's indeed dithering, he's hoping the media focus will change, he's hoping he can relegate it to the back burner and continue of present course. Which BTW is the wisest one. What we've been doing in Afghanistan hasn't done anything for the "people" there. Nope. We did try sorta on the sides.
No what we've been doing is this thing called "war" which isn't - with all apologies to those who think all human affairs should be a govt program - it's war in our own defense, and in particular an economy of force war. There is no right answer, AM himself prior to Humanae Triage posted thus: 10 years, 1 trillion dollars, 5,000 dead (US).
On dithering - it looks like, walks like, talks like...not deliberation but delay.
But God willing he'll step up. Right.
"Further, as a citizen in a culture which has consumed the bitter fruits of some impulsive decisions of another great orator (Gallipoli, Greece, Crete, Singapore to name a few) I am on the side of deliberation."
Yes me too, but this looks more like the indecision by Athens at the gates of Syracuse.
"But he does not even seem to be making the case for deliberation at the moment, and the void is being filled by others."
Yes.
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