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Pakistan Dispatch: The blame game
A few people have been wondering about what Pakistanis make of the recent attacks that have taken place all around the north of the country. Londonstani has been travelling around the region for the past couple of weeks, and unsurprisingly the most recent violence, mainly aimed at civilians, has been a hot topic of conversation. People's opinions are sometimes bewildering, insightful, thought provoking and/or frustrating but they are by no means monolithic. And since it's rare to hear the views of the average Pakistani citizen in daily news reports.. at least anything more than a 5 second sound bite... Abu Muqawama brings them to you here, in technicolour.
Meet Shahid Aslam, from the Punjab-Kashmir border
"I know the kind of people who volunteer to fight for the sake of God. They aren't the kind of people who blow up women and children in mosques. I grew up with people who went to fight in Indian Occupied Kashmir and they were good God-conscious people. The people who blow themselves up in market places are not people of God. They are people with no God. They are just people who want to kill and murder.
"But I tell you one thing, whoever is doing this is Pakistani. That's for sure. They might not be doing the right thing, but they aren't coming over the border from India. Whoever is paying them and convincing them to do this might well be from abroad, but those people are finding recruits out here. I blame the mullahs to some extent. When Pakistan was fighting India, the mullahs were on hand to say that it's OK to go to certain death when you have no other option. Now they are saying suicide operations are wrong. It's confusing for simple young people. But more than that, it makes the population even more convinced that the mullahs who are working in official circles are 'bought mullahs' whatever they are told to say, they say. So people have now decided not to listen to them.
"In this area, we all think the government is paid for by the Americans. This isn't a Pakistani government. It's a wing of the American government. They do what the Americans want and not what we want. I remember when things were a bit better. I remember learning about what Pakistan could be. What our hopes were. But the young people now don't see that. They just see a government that helps the Americans fight in Afghanistan while it robs us.
"It doesn't matter what government we have. We (Pakistan's average citizen) still lose. Every government we have will go towards the Americans because the Americans give them money. If they didn't get money from the Americans, they would just rob us more."
Meet Mehboob Sherif, from southern Punjab
"The Indians are doing to us what we did to them. It makes me laugh when I read the newspapers. I see articles about fighting in Kashmir where we call the gunmen in Indian "fighters" and in the next article about what is happening in Pakistan, we call the same people "militants" or "terrorists" because they are fighting us! That says it all really doesn't it? Do we like these people or not? We can't like them if they are on that side of the border and not like them when they are on this side. That just doesn't work.
"Pakistan is in a rough neighbourhood. We have a new world power on one side, a little below that we have a sworn enemy that is quickly becoming powerful. On the other side the Americans are in Afghanistan. While at the same time, they seem to be making trouble here. And then there's Russia. Pakistan played a pretty large part in the beating they got in Afghanistan. I'm sure their hand is behind some of what is happening because they want some revenge.
"Big city people only talk about what happens in Islamabad and Lahore. We have been suffering for years. There are smaller bombs everywhere in Punjab. If it's not the Taliban then it's shia trying to kill sunni and the other way around. People are getting caught in the middle like always and paying the price.
"In my village, people have died in attacks that don't even make the newspapers. We also have people getting taken away in kidnappings. Then, once the police get involved, then its even worse because they just start arresting people all over the place and you don't know where that person is or when they will come back to their families."
Meet Abdul Malik, from the Punjab-NWFP border area
"No real Muslim would kill civilians and the Taliban have said they don't target civilians. But what I'm saying is that the Taliban who do this are not Muslims.
"We definitely have a huge extremism problem. And those extremists are not Muslims. They are young people who have been led astray. Maybe some of them just want to fight and they say its in the name of Islam because it's better than saying 'I like to fight and kill'. If they did that the government would bomb them to hell and no one would care. You can cover many sins in the name of Islam.
"It's a real tragedy because religion is supposed to make people better. The Taliban are blowing up shrines and talking about killing people who go to them. Is this the act of proper Muslims? No way.
"This extremism problem is spreading everywhere. People used to be interested in poetry, in peace and in doing good works now its all about banning television and killing people who play cards, people who smoke hookah, people who sit in tea houses. The sad thing is that there are people saying this is Islam, and there are more and more people believing it."
Conclusion:
In Londonstani's view, people have a really hard time accepting that people who are similar to them could take something they see as a positive force and use it to justify killing innocent people. The far easier explanation is that other people are to blame and they are trying to discredit your shared religion/culture etc. This is true not only for Pakistanis but for other Muslims and applies equally to people in the UK and US who have a hard time imagining "Our Boys" committing war crimes. It's easier to accept that criminality is to blame for death and destruction because criminality is an aberration of normal society anyway, but its harder to accept when it looks like the destruction is supposed to be an authentic growth out of your own society, when you "know" it's not an authentic expression of your society.
At the moment, people just want the attacks to stop. Questions of who is to ultimately blame have pushed to the back of people's minds. It looks like a small window off opportunity when Pakistani public opinion and Western understanding is on the same page. However, as soon as the immediate threat has receded, opinion polls suggest the mistrust will be back with a vengeance. Figures in the newspapers (that arent to hand now) show that way over 50 percent of Pakistanis see America as the country's biggest threat, 17 percent see India as the biggest threat and just under 10 percent put the Taliban in that position.
It has to be said, from the point of view of your average citizen, like the good people above who gave me some of their time, there was no Taliban in Pakistan when there was no America in Afghanistan. And in much the same way that Americans and Europeans can say, "Just leave them to kill each other", Pakistanis can say, "al Qaeda attacking America is not our problem. America pissed them off not us." But then your average Pakistani citizen knows or cares little about how successive Pakistani militaries were building up the capacity of extremists to fight wars for them on the cheap. And if they did, they probably wouldn't give much thought to the fact that such a relationship is ultimately not sustainable, because at some point the two parties' interest will diverge. If it wasn't the "war on terror" that made the Pakistani government "infidel" in the eyes of the Lashkars, Sipahes and Jamaats, it would have been something else.
In terms of WTF is going on... Londonstani has spent time in a couple of places where conflict is brewing or escalating and has found that such situations have a logic and momentum of their own. In such circumstance, societies rapidly move in directions that locals struggle to comprehend and actors come to the stage with motivations and outlooks that the majority of the population don't even recognise. In that sense, many Pakistanis might think they "know" their fellow countrymen, but does a southern Punjabi really know where a tribesman is coming from? And in say five years, would they understand the motivation of a 17-year-old suicide bomber who equates the word Pakistan with venal officials and military action that killed his family and friends? And right now, how much would a Karachi trader who sells knock off TVs from China really understand what's going through the head of a kid from a dirt poor family who's been in a madrassa where he was taught relentlessly that only when the country adheres to "pure Islam" will God see fit to bring social justice to the land?
And like everything else, in essence that's a situation as true in Pakistan as it elswhere, as Londonstani recently found out when he worked on a documentary based around a white working class sink estate in England and found that many viewers from middle class backgrounds struggled to accept what they saw could happen in their country.
Londonstani, Thank you for
Londonstani,
Thank you for your excellent reporting. I'm a big believer that the right amount of personal antecdotes and narratives tied into qualitative/quantitative analysis and multiple case studies best help accurately define a problem set. Your reporting is providing a piece to this puzzle- well done.
I thought you summed this up well, "Londonstani has spent time in a couple of places where conflict is brewing or escalating and has found that such situations have a logic and momentum of their own." From an initial western perspective, these problems can look muddled and irrational; however, I found that almost every conflict is rational on the lowest levels- even the suidide bomber. Many motivators for conflict can be traced back to emotion and the pursuit of power/wealth.
Stay safe and keep the dispatches flowing.
Mike
I found that this para in
I found that this para in your conclusion merited further comment:
"It has to be said, from the point of view of your average citizen, like the good people above who gave me some of their time, there was no Taliban in Pakistan when there was no America in Afghanistan. And in much the same way that Americans and Europeans can say, "Just leave them to kill each other", Pakistanis can say, "al Qaeda attacking America is not our problem. America pissed them off not us." But then your average Pakistani citizen knows or cares little about how successive Pakistani militaries were building up the capacity of extremists to fight wars for them on the cheap. And if they did, they probably wouldn't give much thought to the fact that such a relationship is ultimately not sustainable, because at some point the two parties' interest will diverge. If it wasn't the "war on terror" that made the Pakistani government "infidel" in the eyes of the Lashkars, Sipahes and Jamaats, it would have been something else."
I think the Pakistanis would remind you that the Lashkars, Sipahes, and Jamaats are not the actors targeting Pakistan’s cities today. That would be the TTP and its component groups based in the FATA and NWFP. Those elements are more closely related to the Haqqani’s than to the sectarian or Indian focused groups. This is a very important point. While I am not in denial about indicators that India focused groups are increasingly collaborating with the FATA based groups they are by no means the main effort. The groups targeting the Pak state are those that think it is enabling U.S. attacks against them. I don't mean to imply that the U.S. shouldn't target these groups, we should when they threaten our interests, but we should not confuse the logic behind their strategy.
Also, you note that the average citizen cares little about that the PakMil has used these groups as proxies. Pakistan has created many proxy groups over the years but history tells us that not all are unsustainable across reasonable time horizons (10-20 years is all one can expect a politican to see - and that's best case). If you buy my premise, that those that attack the government today are based in the FATA, then it is worth noting that those groups (Haqqani’s, Hekmetyar’s, etc….)were created and financed not only by the Pak Mil and Saudi’s but by us as well. The average Pakistani does now this although admittedly they've probably added an exaggerated and conspiratorial twist to this understanding.
Thank you for your
Thank you for your reporting. Putting faces and a bit of background together with the attitudes being expressed makes reading about them much more personal. It certainly makes it easier to understand how people that we don’t know can come to conclusions that seem completely outlandish to us. Please keep posting reports.
Pictorial Profile of
Pictorial Profile of Hakimullah Mehsud
Great Job! I would only add
Great Job!
I would only add one more thing: Your psychoanalysis of the "common man's" confusions may be correct, but dont underestimate the layer of confusion ADDED ON by army psyops to whatever was inevitable and expected in ANY human society.
The army has been running the country in one form or the other since 1953, they have a lot of leverage in the media (much of it unrecognizable to the casual observer). They have a particular interest in trying to project foreigners/Indians/CIA/Jews as the cause of all our troubles. And that interest may not even be primarily ideological (meaning it may not be because the army is all jihadi). Some of the motivation may be more pragmatic: The army high command may be willing to change course on the jihadi issue and even kill its own creations but they are NOT willing to sit back and let bloody civilians run the country as they see fit. If they accept responsibility for this mess it wont take long for ordinary people to realize that the "corrupt civilians" have done much less damage to the country than the super-efficient smartly dressed military patriots, which means the bloody civilians may be giving orders to generals one day.....
I know this sounds too conspiratorial (maybe it is, maybe some bloody civilians have been blaming the army so long, they cannot think any other way), but I suspect that the high command is pretty shrewd when it comes to their interests in the power game. Bottom line: if the army wanted, it could actually demonize these talibans and terrorists much more. The problem is, they want them demonized, but not to the point where people start asking questions about "strategic depth"....Of course, they may actually believe their own propaganda. Its very easy to believe what is in the interest of your pocketbook..
Londonstani, I consider
Londonstani,
I consider this piece to be the best one you have written. As some of you may know, I hold very harsh views towards Islam, and it isn't for personal religious reasons for I have no religion to speak of. Your piece was able to shed great light upon the situation, and I felt that it helped to broaden my views (as cliched as that might sound). The piece helps lessen my harsh views, especially when you discuss the manifold ways in which a person might be driven to an act like suicide bombing (the madrassa bit in the last paragraph was especially interesting). Good stuff, keep it up.
Btw, the general impression I get as a pretty well-read American is that Pakistan is negligent in meeting the needs of America. Pakistan has pretty much failed to sufficiently confront the Taliban and other radical elements until the recent military effort, which may or may not prove to be cursory/superficial/ineffective. I found it highly interesting that so many Pakistanis found their own country to be a servant of America, when a person view of history has lead me to believe that Pakistan has only put on a show of helping the US, given the billions of dollars in aid that have been spent.
Londonastani's right, no one
Londonastani's right, no one likes admitting how dysfunctional their communities/ kinsfolk can be. I saw a similar documentary recently, although the rascist kids featured in this particular documentary werent blowing up markets, they were an embarrasment to their community:
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/homepage/Southmead-police-residents-hit-B...
Thanks for the post. But I
Thanks for the post. But I would like to echo Steve Coll, "Surely an adorable zoo animal gave birth somewhere, people."
"At the moment, people just
"At the moment, people just want the attacks to stop. Questions of who is to ultimately blame have pushed to the back of people's minds. It looks like a small window off opportunity when Pakistani public opinion and Western understanding is on the same page."
Really? I'm not sure about the second part; I'm not sure there is any 'same page' at all. If you can't agree on the reasons for the violence, well...
*Terrible, just terrible violence. And, sorry to be ever-the-skeptic, but I really don't know that anything is going to change, particularly if the 'powers that be' get the sense that they can ride the violence out. Which, let's be honest, they probably think they can. Why not do the minimum to keep the Americans happy, get the money, and then go back to feeding at the trough (military and civilian elites, I mean)? Also, if you polled the elite decision-makers, or the military, I bet India would outpace America as the biggest perceived enemy. What do you think? Am I way off-base? Too skeptical? Totally wrong? Wouldn't be the first time!
"I grew up with people who
"I grew up with people who went to fight in Indian Occupied Kashmir and they were good God-conscious people."
Die faster, Pakistan--die, die!!
I'm lovin' it. :-p
"I think the Pakistanis
"I think the Pakistanis would remind you that the Lashkars, Sipahes, and Jamaats are not the actors targeting Pakistan’s cities today. That would be the TTP and its component groups based in the FATA and NWFP." Um no. Lashkar e Jhanvi/Sipah e Sahaba/Jundullah and the Lashkar e Taiba/Jaish e Mohammed are closely linked to TTP. They operate jointly through Lashkar al Zil. I use to distinguish between pro ISI and anti ISI extremists; but evidence in recent years is increasingly suggesting that this difference is an illusion. Londonstani and Omar, care to comment?
"Those elements are more closely related to the Haqqani’s than to the sectarian or Indian focused groups." Here you confuse me. Haqqani is closely related to the Kashmir Jihad (Lashkar e Taiba/Jaish e Mohammed/Harakat al Islam) and to the anti Shiite bigots (Lashkar e Jhanvi/Sipah e Sahaba/Jundullah.) All of them work very closely with each other. These groups are sometimes collectively referred to as the pro ISI Taliban.
What is troubling is reports that the pro ISI and anti ISI extremists are working increasingly closely together, on both sides of the Durand line. It is true that Haqqani/LeT/Jaish e Mohammed/anti Shiite bigots are maintaining a partial cease fire with the Pakistan Army in North Waziristan, but they seem to be helping TTP in other areas against the Pakistan Army. When they fight jointly, they are sometimes called Lashkar al Zil.
"I am not in denial about indicators that India focused groups are increasingly collaborating with the FATA based groups they are by no means the main effort." After 9/11 violence in Kashmir dropped by 90% because attacking Pakistan and Afghanistan became "the main effort" of the Kashmiri groups.
"If you buy my premise, that those that attack the government today are based in the FATA" I don't accept this. Many groups outside the FATA, and many Punjabis are also attacking the Pakistani government.
"those groups (Haqqani’s, Hekmetyar’s, etc….)were created and financed not only by the Pak Mil and Saudi’s but by us as well. The average Pakistani does now this although admittedly they've probably added an exaggerated and conspiratorial twist to this understanding." True. But US aid was cut off in 1989. Who financed and supported them in the 1990s and 2000s.
Previous comment was by
Previous comment was by me.
"Comment by RaviT on November 4, 2009 - 9:53pm" I don't think you really believe this. For the first time since 1947, older establishment Indians are not rooting against the Pakistani Army. Many of them are confused and not sure who to root for, including previously anti Pakistan Indian nationalists. This change happened in 2009. I think many people in the world are confused right now about who to root for.
Londonstani, amazing post. ;-)
well who ever is doing this
well who ever is doing this is not uderstanding that this will explode, yes few have ben using the tallibans but the common peole are facing it now. The chaos and the shock therapy is not going to good by the end because now it is turning moderates into hard core muslims so if some one is plannig all this God be with the region
Londonstani: This is a great
Londonstani:
This is a great article. However, isn't it a danger to these people to put their names and faces in the open? Is there a risk of retribution?
RaviT:
Die faster, Pakistan--die, die!!
I'm lovin' it. :-p
Because you haven't really thought about the consequences. You think having Pakistan on your doorstep was bad? Enjoy having Somalia there instead.
i did think about safety
i did think about safety issues, which is why I didnt post this stuff earlier. But these people's views are fairly representative (which is why I posted them) so are unlikely to jolt any violent types into a killing frenzy."Many of them are confused
"Many of them are confused and not sure who to root for, including previously anti Pakistan Indian nationalists. This change happened in 2009." - Anan
@ Anan: I think you are correct in that people are confused and not sure what is going on. I guess that goes against my status quo post above? And, as another commenter stated above, no one wants a 'Somalia' next door. A stable, prosperous (and, especially, uninterested in cross-border violence) Pakistan is in India's best interest, isn't it? Heck, it would be in everyone's best interest, but, you know, people have their own ideas of 'best interests.'
@ RaviT: awe, come on, you don't mean that! I'll stress, though, that those of you who would try and understand why a person in Pakistan would turn to violence should understand that violence in India has an effect on that population, too. Works boths ways, unfortunately (not saying RaviT is advocating violence, but, hey, I just had dinner on Saturday with someone whose coworkers died in the Taj Hotel. Violence changes people's opinions and they become skeptical of any 'peace process', or at least, some do.)
@ Londonstani: yes, I agree with the others, this is a nice series, and I very much enjoy hearing from a wider range of people than is typical in the press. One of the Indian papers did this, some time back, with a group of Indian Muslims. It was meant to be a series, and then stopped....?
The security establishment
The security establishment would no doubt love to keep nurturing "good terrorists" while shutting down the "bad" ones but there is no meaningful distinction between all these groups. Not only do they have the same jihadi ideology and draw from the same pool of potential recruits, they were all set up by the ISI and its subcontractors as parts of the same broad network so they have the same grandfather even if they have different parents...
But this "good terrorist-bad terrorist" policy is not working too well. If you look closely, you notice that every year the establishment has to shrink that definition and start fighting another previously "good" group. 8 years ago Ilyas Kashmiri was still getting his stipend from the ISI, today the ISI may be helping the drones to target him. Jaish e Mohammed was all good a few years ago, now they are mostly in the bad category. 4 years ago, corps commanders were putting garlands on the neck of Nek Mohammed and company, today they are having to fight them in South Waziristan. Its NOT a fight they want, but two factors ensure that their relations with "good terrorists" will not be sustainable. One is pressure from abroad (not just from the US) and the other is the sheer bloody mindedness of the terrorists themselves, who recognize no distinction between various jihadi operations and keep going off-script and embarrassing their handlers....of course, it would be better if the establishment were to see the writing on the wall and cut off ties with ALL terorists right away, but that would be expecting too much intelligence from our intelligence agencies. They will act when they no longer have any choice...the jihadis will make sure they push them to that point. Unfortunately much innocent blood will still be shed before they get there.....and the outcome is not assured when they DO get there.
I don't know who the visitor
I don't know who the visitor is that posted at 1256 am but Haqqani is most certainly not "closely related" to the LeT or the Indian focused terrorist groups. It’s like saying Iraq’s Ansar al Islam was affiliated with AQ because Zarqawi passed through Northern Kurdistan in 2000. That mode of connect the dots has been repudiated by most (although personally I see "some" merit in it).
While I acknowledged that there have been reports of some Indian focused terrorists shifting to the FATA this by no means reflects a paradigm shift for LeT, JeM or Sipah to Astan and the FATA - nor does the evidence support this. These are discrete groups that come together on occassion but that ultimately have diverse goals. To conflate them would be a mistake of substantial importance.
It’s irrelevant that we cut off funding in 1989 – unless you presume that Pakistanis are unable to recall their history. Right or wrong they see hypocrisy in our shifting interests. Of course there's nothing wrong with the impermenance of interets but for Pakistan it's interests relative to Astan and India endure. These interests are not fully aligned with ours and explain quite logically why they hedge with proxies. What is less logical is our response to this Pakistani imperative.
Mike U, that would be me.
Mike U, that would be me. Haqqani and LeT fighters fight collaboratively in Eastern Afghanistan, including near Khost. LeT is arguably closer to Haqqani than to any other Taliban faction.
Haqqani, LeT, Jaish e Mohammed, Harakat al Mujahadin (and its offshoots) and three anti Shiite bigoted groups (LeJ, Sipah e Sahaba, Jundullah) were all formed by the ISI, and all all are thought to have recieved substantial ISI support as late as 2008. They are very closely linked. All were active in Kashmir in the 1990s and early 2000s (although the anti Shiite group members fought under the banner of LeT, JeM, in Kashmir.) Haqqani has been involved in many attacks against India, and is arguably more anti Indian than any other Taliban faction. All of these groups share many of the same members and fighters.
What you call the Indian focused terrorists sent many thousands of fighters to Afghanistan in 2001, and have been heavily involved from the begining in fighting the GIRoA, ANSF and ISAF.
"These are discrete groups that come together on occassion but that ultimately have diverse goals." I couldn't disagree with this more. They share many of the same global ambitions. These groups want to establish righteousness in the islamic world and create a global caliphate. {Notice I am only talking about 7 groups here; not everyone in QST or HiG shares this objective.} All are visceral anti Shiite, anti Sufi, and anti nonmuslim bigots.
"but for Pakistan it's interests relative to Astan and India endure." Pakistan benefits more than any other country from successful, prosperous, plural democracies in India and Afghanistan. Pakistan's interests are closely alligned with both countries based on any rational analysis. Pakistan shares common culture, values, languages, entertainment preferences, ancestry, cooking traditions, and economic interests with Afghanistan and India.
"These interests are not fully aligned with ours and explain quite logically why they hedge with proxies." Pakistan's interest are very closely alligned with NATO, Afghanistan, India, China and the international community as a whole. The fact that there are many deeply confused irrational crazy Pakistanis spouting nonsensical gobbly gook to fellow Pakistanis doesn't change Pakistan's basic national interest calculation. Unfortunately, many of these confused crazies are top generals in the Pakistani Army and ISI who manipulate the Pakistani media and public in subtle ways. What you might more accurately argue is that some Pakistani elites believe that their personal interests are in conflict with Pakistan's national interests and that they are willing to harm their country (by messing around with foreign countries) to serve themselves.
"What is less logical is our response to this Pakistani imperative." What is less logical is our failure (I mean the international community as a whole) to consistently and continually explain why Pakistani interests and international interests and values are very closely alligned. The Takfiri extremists pose a greater threat to Pakistan than to anyone else. Pakistani people love Indian and Afghan people, and visa versa. The most anti Pakistani Indians usually have only the nicest things to say about individual Pakistanis they meet and know. Afghans and Indians have a problem with the Pakistani security establishment elites, not with ordinary Pakistanis . . . for whom they have a lot of affection. {Similar to how South Koreans distinguish between ordinary North Koreans and the North Korean government.}
Anan, an utterly stunning
Anan, an utterly stunning interpretation of what's in Pakistan's interests. I won't presume to know your background but having lived in Pakistan as recently as 2008 I can assure you that it's not merely "crazy Pakistanis" but folks who see the world through a very different prism based on their historical experience and their geographic location. None of this is to say that the Pakistanis are correct in their analysis of their circumstances but whether they are correct or not is less relevant than understanding the situation as it is.
I can say with certainty that you overstate, by a very wide margin, the relationship and discrete purposes of the Indian focused groups and the FATA based groups. Everyone knows there's some connection - the Clinton era Tomahawk strike in 98 actually killed HuM fighters in Astan - but as Ahmed Rashid points out the latter was/is focused on India. Are the Indian focused groups more active than previously in fighting U.S. and Pak military than previously? Arguably but these are factions not a wholesale shift which probably explains why they are able to maintain bases and front groups in the Punjab.
As for Haqqani please cite sources of his sponsorship of attacks in India (vice on Indian assets in Astan).
While these groups share a common ideology (although not all are Deobandi's) their ambitions are certainly distinct. You don't see Haqqani trying to overthrow the Pak state and you'll note the acquiessence of the Gul Bahadur's and Maulvi Nazir's to the SWA ops. Do they all dislike the Shia? Sure. Hate nonmuslims in general, ok. But there are clear differences in objectives and global intent/reach.
Of course these groups all formed with sponsorship of ISI but not for the same purposes. ISI does this for obvious reasons, allowing them to be conflated would risk the entire asset when pressured by the international community vice merely elements of the distinct groups (constrain LeT activities but allow Haqqani to press in Astan).
I think Mike needs to
I think Mike needs to distinguish between the interests of pakistan (180 million people) and the Pakistani security establishment. 60 years of zero-sum competition have not been good for the majority of the people of either India or Pakistan, but they have been great for the security establishment (especially in Pakistan).
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