Abu Muqawama: Post
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For the record, I don't know what Fick is talking about. I bought my Ranger Tab at the PX for $1.65.
November 13, 2009 | Posted by Abu Muqawama - 6:17pm | 24 Comments
Oh, the story of the dude who showed up at his high school reunion and told everyone he was a highly decorated Marine... Yeah, that's a crime now, bud. I'm sure the readership has some opinions on this one.
Draft him.
Draft him.
Have fun in prison, bitch.
Have fun in prison, bitch.
"Watcha in for?"
"Murder"
"Armed Robbery"
"Rape"
"Uh....I..uh.."
So why is this a crime?
So why is this a crime? Sounds like some guy made an ass of himself. Sure, it is a pretty despicable lie, but it's not unique to the military. I know a dude who lied his way into a professorship, said he ghost wrote 100 plus scripts for one sitcom, which is fairly impossible. (Oh my God-- just googled him, and he teaches ethics in addition to screenwriting. Perfect.)
Anyway, if/when he gets found out, he is not going to jail. He will just get canned and a little disgraced, maybe a civil suit for back pay. But if instead of lying about civilian activities he lied about military service and gave himself a few medals to boot, that is somehow extra disgraceful enough to merit getting tossed in jail?
I'm not saying charlatans are harmless, and I do get why posing as a decorated veteran is shadier and more reprehensible than posing as an accomplished comedy writer. But I think the onus is on us to keep our bullshite detectors well calibrated. Caveat emptor.
I'm not keen on liars, and if I hear a convincing argument from any of you bookish military types, I am all ears. It just sounds like lying to me, and it bothers me that Congress felt the need to laser in on one version of liar. It strikes me as a cynical law that protects one part of society from liars (arguably in violation of the right to act like a prick which the freedom of speech affords us) while the rest of us just have to deal with their ilk.
Good to know the Rangers
Good to know the Rangers finally have something to wash the snake down with.
@Visitor 9:25 I am not a
@Visitor 9:25
I am not a bookish military type, but...
It is illegal to impersonate more occupations than just the military. It is illegal to impersonate other types of officials, but to do so often requires something less easily proven with photography, such as verbal and/or written statements that are false, presenting falsified paperwork, gaining unauthorized entry to certain facilities, etc.
In the case of military and law enforcement, the uniform identifies the individual. Therefore, merely donning the uniform and asserting that its wear is authorized is an impersonation. This is most likely illegal because one's position carries with it certain authorities and/or immunities.
@Schmedlap. Amen.
@Schmedlap.
Amen.
Visitor 925 - take your point...but I think Schmedlap answered it.
For a country always going
For a country always going on about freedom and liberty the US seems very quick to throw people in jail for actions that don't directly hurt anyone else. This case is especially curious as the US has a culture- from Hollywood and sports through celebrity worship- built on hype and exaggeration. What possible use will it be to throw Walter Mitty's in jail?
Don't send him to prison.
Don't send him to prison. Send him to Parris Island with a sign around his neck.
@ 1024, Walter Mitty -
@ 1024,
Walter Mitty - didn't he commit suicide?
I LOVE how people accuse us of hype and exaggeration. But seriously folks...
Schmedlap kinda answered it all. If he dressed up like a policeman or medical professional, or a firefighter we wouldn't be having this conversation.
He sounds like one of those
He sounds like one of those "chronic bullshitter" types that almost everybody knows - the insecure guys who are always bullshitting about something, be it their jobs, dates, etc.
That said, prison seems harsh. Simply fining him and rubbing his nose in it (i.e., him getting into the news as the guy who pretended to be a marine) is probably enough.
Why weren't the Village
Why weren't the Village People arrested? Impersonation to be crime should be because it's being used to defraud someone or to put someone in danger (i.e. pretending to be a surgeon). That's why actors playing cops isn't against the laugh. Telling folks you're rich, or a military or sports hero just to make yourself feel important or the be the centre of attention shouldn't be a crime. The perpetrators when caught should be laughed at not thrown in jail.
Thanks to the replies to my
Thanks to the replies to my question, even though this topic is not exactly COIN. By the way, I meant "bookish military type" as a sort of joking nod to the tone of this site, which I like a lot. Plus I figured some readers here have thought about this a lot more than I have. So, nothing snide intended.
I hear you, but I feel like "impersonating a cop" usually involves doing police activity or illegal activity while in uniform for some gain-- trying to arrest people, using a fake badge as a pretext to control people, to trespass, etc. Likewise with falsely impersonating a doctor. To trespass in a hospital or mess with patients? A crime. But saying you're a surgeon to impress a chick? Immoral, but not a crime. If this guy used a fake set of medals to get VA benefits, or even to knock someone out of some sort of veteran related job, then I probably would not have chimed in. But to me, walking around a high school reunion acting like you are a Marine (and not doing it well, evidently) is simply lying, and nowhere near the same as pretending you are a cop and shaking down your neighbors. Visitor 221 put my POV more succinctly, if more Englishly. ("Centre," old bean?)
walking around a high school
walking around a high school reunion acting like you are a Marine (and not doing it well, evidently) is simply lying, and nowhere near the same as pretending you are a cop and shaking down your neighbors
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Exactly .... Im not sure who is worse .... the wannabe hero or the children worried about it.
Those children would
Those children would probably be the voters, their representatives, and the media....
Or those of us that have
Or those of us that have actually earned the right to wear the uniform...
If I'm getting robbed, I
If I'm getting robbed, I might turn to someone who looks like a cop and ask for help. If that person is impersonating then I am screwed.
If I am dying, I might turn to someone who is pretending to be an emergency response person. If that person is faking, then I'm probably dead.
If I'm getting invaded by a foreign country, I might turn to a ranger for assistance. If that person is not a ranger, then... wait...NOBODY IS INVADING THE U.S.
Let this guy lie and suffer the consequences, like everyone else who lies.
Or those of us that have
Or those of us that have actually earned the right to wear the uniform...
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Yeah I out grew my uniform and then my small mind....This is nothing more than political posturing and I won't be grouped or used by those sweating the dumb things. My ego is to big as well as my azz and my temper.
For those who feel violated, Just remember imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Semper
This guy could have gotten a
This guy could have gotten a free meal at Applebee's on Veteran's Day by wearing that uniform. Nuff said.
1. It's not about the
1. It's not about the uniform!
2. It's about the fruit salad
3. The Law is a variation on a previous theme (MOH versus other awards)
4. Look HERE
I am surprised no one here knows this, given all of the military participants
This lack of G-2 would not be represented by SWJ's commenters
I get it...CNAS is SWJ's Special ED web presence
I know, I know, then what the fuck are you doing here insulting folks?
I am guilty of slumming
Have a nice day!
(Unqualified opinion by
(Unqualified opinion by someone who has not served follows:)
Commenters who point out the difference between impersonating a cop/firefighter/doctor and a soldier/veteran raise a good point. The question is whether the guy used his ruse to exercise some authority or privilege. But I think he did, in a way that doesn't compare to pretending you're a surgeon at a cocktail party.
People who put on the uniform fulfill a duty that, by right, we should all have. Defending the country is not an obligation of a subset of its citizens, but all of them. As a practical matter, we delegate the soldiering to a subset. In return, they get paid money, some healthcare, and some other relatively minor benefits.
The main thing the nation can give is honor & respect. Guarding that respect (including by criminalizing efforts to misappropriate it) is part of paying our debt to our soldiers. A person who impersonates a soldier/veteran (I realize the statute only addresses awards -- I think a case can be made for expanding it to service itself) effectively steals part of our societal compensation to our servicepeople.
About a million years ago,
About a million years ago, when I used to go down to River street in Savannah with my fellow 1/75 Rangers for a beer, we would inevitably run into some 'leg' wearing a Ranger t-shirt. Someone in our group will inevitably tear the shirt right off the guy's back in the bar, and the usual frivolity would ensue.
A few years later at Bragg, we would catch wannabes downrange wearing their De Oppresso Liber fanrags, get irritated, maybe check them out or maybe just go about our business (i.e. drinking).
About three weeks after 9/11 and many years after becoming a civilian, I saw some guy in Central Park weighing probably 300 pounds who looked like he'd never done a push-up in his life. It was an unseasonably warm day and the guy was wearing a T-shirt with a Colbert-style swooping eagle, talons extended, multiple SOF logos and in nine-hundred-fifty-two-or-so point type, "SPECIAL FORCES: THE QUIET PROFESSIONALS". I just laughed and walked away.
Point being: People who do this are objects of pity and derision, but they are inevitably found out and humiliated and in the end they don't matter. I didn't get into the biz to be admired by civilians, and nobody has stolen my valor by pretending to be Me. He can have AppleBee's. That shit is terrible.
In regard to the immediate
In regard to the immediate case, the medals are most likely the issue. I think the questions from the special ed audience were regarding the issue in general: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000912----...
Unless he/she steals our
Unless he/she steals our benefits - which is a whole different ball of wax - I actually think I'd just settle for community service w/shame (he pretended to be a hero). Like the stocks of olden days.
Before volunteering for
Before volunteering for Special Forces, going through extensive additional training, and serving three tours and one extension in Vietnam during the 60s, I served two years with the 11th Airborne Division in Munich Germany (between 56- 58) . My C.O. in Munich was Captain Benjamin F. Wilson (commanding Co "E", 503) who was a Medal of Honor awardee, and an awardee of the Distinguished Service Cross for his heroism in Korea. These are the two highest medals for heroism the nation can award. If one takes the time to read the citations of this relative handful of men, it is clear that they are extraordinarily outstanding among millions of other Americans who have been put into similar circumstances. Out of love for their fellow men and in an attempt to save American lives, they performed feats of unbelievable heroism while knowing that by doing so, there was a very high probabiliy that they were sacrificing their own lives.
When I read about one after another fakes wearing unearned medals for valor (in essecense stealing the valor deserved by others), I feel , in the mind of the public, that it waters down the meaning of the medals worn by the truely worthy, and steals away some of the great respect which is due to true heroes. Unless this kind of act is criminally prosecuted it becomes a licence, nay, and ENCOURAGEMENT, for other phonies to wear undeserved awards for valor. This cheapens the medals of the truely deserving, partly by putting the following thought in the mind of some who encounter real heroes in uniform: "This guy is probably another one of those frauds; ignore him!"
To say that wearing unearned awards for valor is not a serious offence, is like saying such medals for valor are of no consequence. In Vietnam I was spattered by the blood of more than one true hero and witnessed their deaths. These were people I knew and admired for their unselfishness and humanity.
As for those phonies who put on the uniform without serving: To me, that uniform is like the American flag. It deserves respect. Just as we have well defined flag ediquet, so do we have the ediquet for the wearing and use of the U.S. military uniform. The unworthy wearing of the uniform is like unto disrespect or desecration of the American Flag. Everyone in the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, and Coast Guard, is taught uniform respect and etiquete at the beginning of his service.
This is just another reason why it is a crime for anyone other than real military personell (except for actors in theatrical productions), to dress up as active duty or retired military personel.
I fully concur with those who feel that stolen valor should be discouraged by penalties great enough to discourage repetition of such actions, and to deter others who would do the same if there were no penalty. Jail time is not inappropriate.
I was never one of those who would rip the T-shirt off the back of a phony when the shirt was imprinted with the replica of a Ranger tab or a Special Forces crest, nor did I ever participte in pulling Corcoran jump boots off of the feet of some leg and turning those boots into low quarters with a pocket knife (which was not uncommon practice by paratroopers during the '50s). But I do greatly resent stolen valor. And, I believe that there should be a penalty great enough to deter such behavior.
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