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Preventing Terrorism at Home - The View from Ground Zero
Londonstani spent most of the summer on a housing estate clinging to the outskirts of Bristol. The job in hand was to investigate racism for a documentary by living as an immigrant in the kind of area many recent arrivals are housed in by local councils. But the experience also shed light on how the process of radicalisation plays out on the streets of modern Britain. Considering the recent debate about Prevent in the UK, Londonstani thinks it'll be useful to share his observations.
British readers will have little difficulty guessing Londonstani's identity from this post, but he would very much appreciate they keep it to themselves as full disclosure will threaten continued posting from Pakistan.
(preemptive apologies to Ma Exum and Lady Muqawama for some of the language in this post)
I'm used to hearing people in the Muslim world talk about life in Britain as a utopian fantasy. In Pakistan, on a daily basis, i hear rich and poor people talk about Britain's civilised society, it's impartial justice system and the humanitarian founding principles of a health system that provides care for all. Sometimes, I try to inject a little realism into the discussion by pointing out our social problems and the frequent complaints about the deteriorating quality of the country's social services. But I can almost see the words bounce off people's glazed expressions. This is not restricted to Pakistan. Even people in more stable countries like Egypt allow themselves to think of life in a developed economy as a heaven-like dream.
This summer, I saw reality hit home for those few who make it to Britain. I was sitting at a bus stop on the edge of Bristol's Southmead Estate. Beside me was a Sudanese man with his young daughter, who seemed about six years old. We sat on the same bench as he asked her about school and her homework. He had no reason to think I understood his northern Sudanese Arabic dialect, and I felt guilty being an unintended party to a private conversation between a father who looked like he'd just finished a long shift as a security guard at a supermarket and a child, who was plainly excited to be out with her father.
I reached into the paint-splattered overalls that were meant to make me look like a Pakistani immigrant doing odd jobs to survive in his new home and pulled out a cigarette, hoping that leaning against the bus stop away from the Sudanese family would let me tune out of their conversation. On the other side of the road was another bus stop. A group of local girls, none older than 15, were talking to each other loudly. Amongst all the squealing, the only words I could make out were "fuck", "bastard" and "cunt". Occasionally one of the girls would pull her skirt up at a passing car of boys and the others would cheer and hand her a bottle of brightly coloured liquor to swig from. Every now and again, one of the cars would stop and another girl might stand in front of the passenger window and pull down her top. The boys would try and persuade them to get in. Eventually, two of the girls got into a crowded little car with wide tyres and lowered suspension.
I had been absent mindedly watching the events in front of us. After the car drove away, the Sudanese father turned to his daughter and said; "That's what English girls are like. Never talk to people like that."
A few days later at the same bus stop, two Indian low-grade computer technicians were discussing their new home. They probably assumed I understood their Hindi, but they didn't seem to care. They spoke of near daily verbal abuse and friends who had been attacked by teenage thugs. England, they decided, wasn't what they thought it was. Just before they got on their bus, a group of teenagers outside the chip shop behind us proved the technicians' point by rounding on a passing elderly local.
"Look out, he's a perv," shouted one boy. Before another pushed the girl standing next to him in front of the old man and said, "I bet you wish you could fuck her". They all then burst into laughter.
Southmead is the Britain that most people do not see. This is perhaps understandable if you live abroad. But judging from comments after the broadcast of the documentary, people in Britain's more affluent areas are unaware of what happens in neighbourhoods literally on their doorsteps. The little attention places like Southmead merit on the public's radar, is inversely proportional to their physical presence. Places like Southmead exist on the borders of every British city and inside the largest ones. A very large proportion of Britain's immigrants live in places like Southmead and a sizeable chunk of the white population has grown up in similar surroundings.
I saw these surroundings at close quarters. Hundreds of cans of high-strength cider littered the streets every Saturday and Sunday. I saw unemployed drunken youths accost shoppers in the mornings. The green spaces that looked inviting from afar were littered with used condoms, pregnancy test kits and the excrement of pitbull dogs that were popular pets amongst residents. In the daytime, teenage mothers pushed young children around the estate. I saw the partner of one young mother call a toddler a "fucking little shit" before smacking him hard enough on the back of the head to make the child drop to his knees and cover his head in the expectation of further violence. In the early evenings, young teenagers would sit at benches swigging from bottles of cheap alcohol. On one occasion, I became their target.
As an immigrant in Southmead, segregating yourself and your family was an act of self preservation. Two young British-born Pakistani boys I talked to told me earnestly that they were good because "we aint got no white friends". There were many helpful and kind local people living on the estate. But the few I bumped into were often quick to distance themselves from their environment. A retired man who used to try to talk to me every morning at another bus stop would freeze when tatooed men with aggressive dogs walked by. Young mothers who used the same stop would talk about needing to move out "for the sake of the kids".
The impulse to segregate was compounded by the messages that seemed to reinforce the idea that the treatment in Southmead reflected the mood and views of the rest of Britain. "Hundreds of thousands of migrants here for handouts, says senior judge". "Britain paying migrants £1,700 to return home BEFORE they've even got here" "The violent new breed of migrants who will let nothing stop them coming to Britain" These headlines were just three of many that were printed in the Mail, a right-wing daily during my time in Southmead. I don't usually take much notice of the headlines in the Sun and the Mail unless they are truly shocking, but in Southmead the headlines seemed to have an impact on the treatment we received. The level of low-level hostility from adults seemed to be directly linked to the content of the headlines. More outright hostility from younger adults and children followed a day or so later.
Walking around the estate, I often thought of British Pakistani and Somali boys growing up thinking their experiences were an accurate portrayal of what Britain was about. I imagined growing up with such a view of Britain would make the idea of fighting UK forces in Muslim lands seem righteous. On the battlefields of Iraq and/or Afghanistan, the young soldiers they would face would likely include the white youngsters who joined up hoping the army was their way out of Southmead.
But the army wasn't the only way out. There was also religion. If you decide that the dysfunctional reality of Southmead is a product of a permissive society, austere religion is a logical answer.
I met one man from Southmead who had made that decision. A local man had embraced a strict form of Islam. He told me that the problems of the area resulted from weak family values and a moral laxity that allowed the misuse of drugs and alcohol. Islam had provided him a way out and a template for a better life than the one he had seen growing up. Although we talked for literally minutes, it was easy to tell I was talking to a mature adult who made a considered decision that had helped him live as a productive and responsible member of society.
I heard of at least another local man who had embraced Islam. I didn't meet him but I read about him in the newspapers while he was on trial for trying to bomb a shopping centre in the city. When police raided his flat they found a suicide vest and explosives hidden in a biscuit tin.
Andrew Ibrahim is the son of middle class parents, who news reports said were Egyptian Christians. During the trial, a picture emerged of a young man with serious emotional and drug abuse problems. It was a picture I had come across before when looking at a new emerging breed of extremists who came from criminal backgrounds and actively sought out extremist Islam as a way of depicting their activities as more than mere criminality and a route to a new identity as warriors in a cosmic battle.
News reports said Ibrahim described the UK as a "dirty toilet". How much of his view was influenced by the surroundings of his upbringing?
The judge presiding over the trial, which ended with Ibrahim getting a life term, summed up the prosecution's portrayal of Ibrahim as one of a young man who suffered a disturbed adolescence and went on to become lonely, angry and alienated from society. The description could fit any number of young men in Southmead and other places like it. Not all will turn to extremism, but they will likely be drawn to other forms of angry destructive behaviour.
The ingredients that make a British terrorist are numerous, interact with each other in different ways and are changing constantly. Just looking at "Britishness" or identity fails to take into account the growing numbers of extremists that are emerging from non-Muslim backgrounds. But what affects one person doesn't necessarily affect another. Ibrahim's brother Peter was reported to be a Oxbridge educated lawyer. But whatever the ingredients are, it was clear from my time in Southmead that it's easier to find them in places that suffer social deprivation. And the UK has many of them.
The discussion about Muslim immigrants turning to extremism often centres around them not wanting to integrate into British life. But it never addresses the fact that many come with high hopes of a new life, and find reality bitterly dispiriting. They come to take advantage of social mobility and a law-abiding society to build a better life for their families. They end up feeling they need to protect their families from the very society they had idolised. Why don't they go home? Many people I met from more stable parts of the world talked about it "after saving enough". But like others before them, chances are that they will stay. People who had come with a fantasy of Britain ended just seeing it as an opportunity to earn and a contagion to avoid.
Government policy seeks to target resources to fix problems in the most cost effective manner. However, the problem of extremism now involves society as a whole. Pre 9/11 it was limited to a section of a section of the population. That has grown with the advent of the Iraq war and the emergence of an image of Muslim militants as righteous men ready to stand against a superpower and the ability to make the established powers of the world look impotent. It's an image that appeals to people of diverse backgrounds who are disillusioned with their societies. People who aren't necessarily observant Muslims, or even Muslims at all. But at the same time, the increasingly obvious bloodlust of the men and women drawn to the cause has alienated most Muslims.
What does that mean for initiatives like Operation Contest's Prevent aspect? (thanks davidpfbo) On the one hand, allies and partners are easier to identify, but the work that needs to be done has to reach out to more people and address wider issues in our society. Despite the protests of individual voices lobbying for the adoption of their own outlook, work on identity, engagement with more authentic Islamic voices and community work (including seemingly unconnected activities like sports) all have a roll to play. The undertaking is huge and constant fine tuning is vital. It also involves sums that the British government will struggle to find.
This country can dominate
This country can dominate any other -ism's. Make no mistake the US of A will win this war against Evil. Where we are proud to be an American, where atleast I know I'm free. And we won't forget the men who died who gave their lives for me. And I gladly stand up!-- next to you, to defend Her still today. Because there is no doubt I love this land... God bless the US of A!!!
Great post... keep it up.
Great post... keep it up. You missed your calling as an anthropologist apparently.
Did you happen to take
Did you happen to take photos of the group of local English girls you saw at bus stop?
Londonstani: This post is
Londonstani: This post is among your best. Thank you for sharing your insight.
Just when I start feeling jaded and worldly (easy to come by here in DC), I'm reminded how sheltered and naive I truly am. Remarkable post.
@Jane IV: I live on the
@Jane IV: I live on the Green line.
Segregation, geographic and
Segregation, geographic and mental, is a big cause of home grown extremism. There should be no 'no- go zones', real or imagined in the UK for any community. Southmead, until recently, was a white ghetto just like parts of Dewsbury, Blackburn, etc are Muslim ghettos (although with less visible problems). It's not just immigrants that suffer in some of these estates, anyone who stands out will get abuse: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6241791/Mother-and-daughter-who-b...
There only so much the government can do to fight extremism. Local, homegrown initiatives are the most likely to succeed. If there arent enough local initiatives, then the community cant think theres much of a problem. I agree that sport is the most cost effective way of getting youths (muslim and non muslim) together and keeping them on the right path, whether that be away from extremism, drugs, crime or any of societies ills. The government should fund schemes that arent directly related to anti extremism but that have the same effect (like sport) and are available to all communities. Segregating funding into 'black', 'muslim' etc is part of the problem.
Is Hip Hop alive in the UK?
Is Hip Hop alive in the UK? If so, is it helping the poverty stricken lower class persons escape their predicament. Studies have shown that not only has Hip Hop increased America's poor ride out their plight, Hip Hop has also continued to increase the poor's propensity to buy, even without money. Hip Hop is the answer. The U.S. State Department used to have jazz concerts all over the world to promote American culture during the Cold War era. We need to promote Hip Hop to counter Islamic violence.
Caveat: Avoid the more revolutionary brand of Hip Hop and just focus on the "buy this, buy that... look at me with bitches and hoes... you should've put a ring on it, woopty woo" type. Mos Def.
Fantastic anthropological
Fantastic anthropological work.
I wonder if it is a categorization that can be applied to many homegrown terrorists who are eager to strike out against their own state; in which they are environmentally disposed to be violent and to engage in violent crime, and then eventually fashion their identity and turn to religion and such so, like you said, they can find their actions a bit more meaningful.
HUS
G unit, I assume you aren't
G unit, I assume you aren't saying Mos Def is one of the gangsta rappers.
Great piece!
Great piece!
Londonstani, Thank you for
Londonstani,
Thank you for sharing a great insight. If you could add a video or photos of the local English girls, this would better illustrate your position in this matter. Forget about Anthropology, Roman Polansky's living it up in the Swiss Alps.
Mr Farad covers this topic
Mr Farad covers this topic in his exellent book...
http://www.paradigmpublishers.com/books/BookDetail.aspx?productID=187011
The slummy behavior of the
The slummy behavior of the British youth that these immigrants witness is the inevitable outcome of the deindustrialization of Britain.
A generation or two ago, those youth would have easily found steady jobs in factories and would have been on their way to adulthood. Now they see no future but a series of low-grade jobs and/or welfare payments.
There probably never was
There probably never was since the Heptarchy ended, or almost since it began, so hugely critical an epoch in the history of England as this we have now entered upon, with universal self-congratulation and flinging up of caps; nor one in which, -- with no Norman Invasion now ahead, to lay hold of it, to bridle and regulate it for us (little thinking it was for us), and guide it into higher and wider regions, -- the question of utter death or of nobler new life for the poor Country was so uncertain. Three things seem to be agreed upon by gods and men, at least by English men and gods; certain to happen, and are now in visible course of fulfilment.
1. Democracy to complete itself; to go the full length of its course, towards the Bottomless or into it, no power now extant to prevent it or even considerably retard it, -- till we have seen where it will lead us to, and whether there will then be any return possible, or none. Complete "liberty" to all persons; Count of Heads to be the Divine Court of Appeal on every question and interest of mankind; Count of Heads to choose a Parliament according to its own heart at last, and sit with Penny Newspapers zealously watching the same said Parliament, so chosen and so watched, -- to do what trifle of legislating and administering may still be needed in such an England, with its hundred and fifty millions "free" more and more to follow each his own nose, by way of guide-post in this intricate world.
2. That, in a limited time, say 50 years hence, the Church, all Churches and so- called religions, the Christian Religion itself, shall have deliquesced, -- into "Liberty of Conscience," Progress of Opinion, Progress of Intellect, Philanthropic Movement, and other aqueous residues, of a vapid badly-scented character; -- and shall, like water spilt upon the ground, trouble nobody considerably thence forth, but evaporate at its leisure.
[...]
The prophecy truly was plain enough this long while -- "Dogma gar auton tis metaballei: For who can change the opinion of these people!" as the sage Antoninus notes. It is indeed strange how prepossessions and delusions seize upon whole communities of men: no basis in the notion they have formed, yet everybody adopting it, everybody finding the whole world agree with him in it, and accept it as an axiom of Euclid; and, in the universal repetition and reverberation, taking all contradiction of it as an insult, and a sign of malicious insanity, hardly to be borne with patience...
- Thomas Carlyle, Shooting Niagara, 1867.
why didn't londonstani take
why didn't londonstani take any pictures of those local english girls? i thought this was a military blog first and foremost.
Blimey Londonstani, that's
Blimey Londonstani, that's making your identity a bit obvious isn't it. Anyone with Google can find you easy peasy.
Anyway, excellent report on a side of the UK that doesn't get enough exposure beyond 'evil brown working class scum' (the Hate) and 'evil white working class scum' (Grauniad). What do you suggest is done? This isn't really COIN or CT but social change on a grand scale. What is it that's needed and how can we do it with the UK's finances looking so ropey?
(Side note: what about the non-white but non-muslim groups? Living in Elephant and Castle last year it was all muslim Somalis and Pakistanis on christian Nigerians and Caribs).
Rights and
Rights and Freedoms
http://security.homeoffice.gov.uk/counter-terrorism-strategy/about-the-s...
The principles and values that form the very basis of our society are at the core of our counter-terrorism strategy. Terrorism threatens some of our most fundamental rights, including the most important human right of all – the right to life. Protecting the lives of the British people is our most important job. The aim of our strategy is to allow people to live normally, free from fear.
We put respect for human rights at the centre of our response to the terrorist threat and we go to great lengths to ensure our response is proportionate, fair, and effective. Where necessary, to ensure this, we have put in place robust, independently monitored safeguards and checks.
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Where necessary, to ensure this, we have put in place robust, independently monitored safeguards and checks.... Read that again... Where necessary, to ensure this, we have put in place robust, independently monitored safeguards and checks.
What do you think this means? In short, I believe it means the British don't care about basic freedoms, rights to privacy and anyone's expectation of privacy. They are at war with radical Islam. I'm sure they are spying, eavesdropping, monitoring people's email, regular mail, the purchasing of any items that could used to build a device or could harm another individual, they are monitoring the books people are checking out of local library's... people's internet activity. They are watching all within their boarders and from the sounds of it...they are doing a good job of it, getting better, refining their techniques and "black bagging" any would-be terrorists. They have their own holding facilities, if these individuals are hardliners who haven't broken the law yet (on the fence), they are reeducating these individuals, (like what happened to many hard-line Vietnamese at Fantasy Island) , these individuals are being held against their will and they are remolding / brainwashing them and then if they don't accept the behavior modification...they are being eliminated.
I'm wondering where UK's "War Relocation Center" is????
Below is a map of Relocation Centers the United States used during WW2 to hold, house and provide behavior modification for Japanese. Probably more camps than you thought.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Posted_Japanese_Ameri...
My question is, how long will it be before the British stop being quiet about scooping young Muslim men up to hold, house and provide behavior modification?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_World_War_II_Japanese_American_...
Over 120,000 Japanese were held in these camps in WW2. My guess is that probably 1/10 of those numbers are being held in various locations around the world and receiving some form of behavior modification or just being held against their will, because they are hard-line members of radical Islam.
Do I have a problem with this? No I don't. Sounds like the UK is handling the situation and doing a good job.
As a Brit living in a poor
As a Brit living in a poor area, it doesn't look at all good. However, there's a logical misstep or so between the knowledge that British society is a dysgenic vat of filth and the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Mohammed. Why do people flee one insane failed experiment only to fall in with another?
I used to think I was a nationalist, now I'm looking for a functioning nation.
I think a lot of this comes
I think a lot of this comes down to something so basic as dignity, a concept that many western binge-drinkers seems to have abandoned. From my experiences in Copenhagens Nørrebro district, it seemed that there were only three roads: Being a good "paki" and soaking up the abuse, go criminal or go religious. What is easily forgotten is that most immigrants coming to Europe are above average resourceful, and instead of getting paid off for that they are often forced into lowerclass ghettos like in the article.
The solution? More youth-centers, more education of the women, more social cross-polination, more journalists like the now outed Londonstani.. It seems to me that Britain has mor eor less chosen to fall back into the class-system of the 30s with a feral lowerclass that seems more or less abandoned, while the fat cats and educated elite look down on them as animals. Thats the recipe for BNP to win.
"People who had come with a
"People who had come with a fantasy of Britain ended just seeing it as an opportunity to earn and a contagion to avoid."
Sounds like you to be honest. What conclusions could any policy maker take from this rambling anglophobic crap.
I wonder when you get your
I wonder when you get your green card ? A reward for pissing on your own country for the amusment of Captain Exum ?
" rambling anglophobic
" rambling anglophobic crap"
I'm guessing you don't get out of the suburbs much, chief?
Londonstani, take care of yourself, man. You're doing valuable work.
Visitor on December 6, 2009
Visitor on December 6, 2009 - 9:19am
Pissing on Pakistan would probably help put the flames out, since it's going to implode in the not so distant future.
As for Londonstani getting a green card for his useful information on the war on terror, I would think if he meets the right people, he would receive citizenship, not just a green card. Hell, if he provides really useful information, he could get lots of $money$....
The US gave citizenship and 25 million dollars to a lucky Iraqi who provided the location of Saddam Hussein. How much money do you think someone would receive for pinging your IP address and finding you? :-)
I love how you call the
I love how you call the projects, ghetto, hood, barrio, trailer park "Estates". Leave it to the Brits!!
Jobs are clearly a major problem in this case, and they don't, don't, don't get created by government spending sums it doesn't have, or "Sport", or other amusements or time spenders.
If a man doesn't have a job, he is temporarily unmanned.
The pathologies you describe are universal to welfare communities the world over, and from the dawn of History.
Look at the damage the Patrician Class - with it's clientissimo, patronage, buying up of debt, recruiting of the lower ranks of society as professional soldiers rather than the Republics earlier levies, and eventually bread and circuses -did to the Roman State. It tore apart and bankrupted the Republic and led to it's fall, and constantly undermined the Empire. What you are describing is the mob of Rome.
These people need families as children and industry and employment as adults, and a moderate religion of whatever kind. They also might need a education that enforces behavioral standards, discipline and the basics of education when they come off the street. You could look for the American urban renaissance that started in NYC and other cities in the 90's for inspiration. They stopped welfare fraud (in NYC by fingerprinting), stood up to the public sector unions, and basically told people to get a job. Cracking down on rampart crime helped as well. Note this was part of a societal reaction against the culture of welfare, crime, drugs and irresponsibility as a whole. And to this day the Charter schools, often religious yes, will enforce a code of behavior when you cross their threshold, starting with dress.
I realize Londonstani that I am talking to what we would call a statist. Just entertain for a moment the idea that the state and a new twist on the dole might not be the answer, indeed is subsidizing the problem. The idea that dole baby dole and Quangocrats will save you is risible. Save yourselves.
One might also note that for all the criticisms of our two party system of politics and our Jeffersonian Democracy by Superciliously Superior Beings of Europe our pols listened. Welfare reform - which boiled down to 5 years lifetime benefits (in theory), work requirements however minimal - was signed into Law by Clinton. What had been somewhat of a fringe system got a following and was incorporated into both major parties. Something to be said for a two party system that incorporates good (or popular) ideas from fringe movements or parties into the mainstream.
So true - I'm 100% CHAV,
So true - I'm 100% CHAV, born and bred. He does excellent work on Pakistan and also his stuff on Sudan was a real eye-opener. My issue is that when it comes to the UK he has an Axe to grind.
As for 10.32 am -I was talking about the UK - so you can call off Jack Bauer.
@Only a matter of
@Only a matter of time....
Sadly, the vast majority of those "Japanese" interned during WWII were native born (first generation) American citizens. Remember, also, that the US Supreme Court has never overruled _Koromatsu_. It could happen again.
Great work! Thanks for
Great work! Thanks for this.
Elf- The strong economy of the 90s, one that spread money to all classes, was probably a bigger factor. having fewer young males of the crime committing age even bigger.
Steve
OK, not necessary in this
OK, not necessary in this case. No, really I said it.
What is necessary is to not let the Radicals preach and spread their poison to the young and vulnerable. Nor to organize, raise funds, receive funds from Saudi...indeed, to walk free in our land. NO. Get out or go to Jail. It's madness to let them have their way and wont just because they haven't been caught breaking any laws, yet. Madness. It's indeed a war, the Law does not apply.
And once again, for the Law to apply to war, it will have to write out freedoms for all of us. Equal Justice and Equal Injustice under the Law.
Now if you want to avoid prejudice and unjust discrimination then for God Sakes DON'T allow the Radicals free reign, as they will taint the vast majority of innocents. As Londonstani and others have pointed out the blood-lust and senseless carnage turn them off if nothing else. If you want to avoid the innocent being lumped in with the guilty then don't lump the guilty under the innocent banner. To include innocent until proven guilty. That's for the courts. They should have no say in war. None.
I still recommend the Islamist, although I guess Londonstani panned it in a review.
Thought this might interest
Thought this might interest some readers. It is an article about developed countries stepping away from the gold standard, and economics. People have unlinked themselves from liabilities. The principles of the bank system have incorporated themselves to avoid personal risk while the business practice has become more leveraged. Currencies are no longer based on gold or silver we print money at the lowest cost, it has no value. It is a system of trust and honor. The GDP growth and the rewards have been huge. The separation between the “haves” and the “have-nots” has never been greater. We are insulated.
Requiem for the Dollar
Yet, we look around ourselves and see behavior that is not appropriate, we have people losing trust in the system and have lost hope. Commitments to our families are cracking, divorce rates or high. There is a casual way in how modern people deal with the commitment in their lives and debt this effects how we respect our selves and project our values to people outside our communities. We no longer pay "in cash". This feeling of changing values is not unique to a specific religion or country. Majority of people who I have contact with, are not happy with the direction that we see our community going. Have you visited an inner city in the US lately? I hear a lot of comments about the “green line” out of the DC crowd or bling bling down the street.
Maybe we have more in common than we think?
People need hope that they can take to the bank more than just change, it is about opportunity, not had outs or sports. It cannot be temporary, the cheapest solution, it is the future of our countries.
Was reading “One Tribe and a time”, it is not a new concept. It does point out the need to connect with the community, each group may have different needs. I have seen movement in US law enforcement to apply COIN to gang violence. Not sure if this is the tactic of the day, there might be some lessons learned to engage groups of individuals that have a common bond (religion or ethnic origin). It is getting some traction. You should try the “EL” in Chicago or take a trip on the south side. Miles of people not making a contribution.
If we can do nation building, we bring people back into the community.
Not sure of the link for
Not sure of the link for Requiem for the Dollar is working for the above post, I will relist here.......
Requiem for the Dollar : http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870434240457457576166048199...
Something happened to the
Something happened to the link for the above post.
Requiem for the Dollar :
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870434240457457576166048199...
Baroness Varsi, UK
Baroness Varsi, UK Conservative peer pelted with eggs by some charming British gents: http://playpolitical.typepad.com/uk_conservative/2009/12/sayeeda-warsi-c...
As always Londonstani
As always Londonstani excellent reportage. As a ex pat Brit living in Australia I only occasionally get a glimpse of the worst areas of my former homeland. but what I do see is dis-heartening. Disenfranchised and easily radicalized youth are the single greatest threat to UK security. Without a sense of belonging and a sense of home, plus a decent wage in their pocket they will just be fodder for the radicals and the next set of mugshots we see next to photos of burning buses.
@ Visitor Requiem, Re:
@ Visitor Requiem,
Re: the Inner City - look who you voted for the last 50 years. As far as reach out and touch someone- Yeah. Slap a mooch and tell him to get a job. And quit feeling sorry for yourself. Get a job: it's contributing.
I actually think the gap between the Haves and Have nots has never been narrower if you go by wealth, the spread of it, material possessions, living conditions, lifespan, access to education (indeed free and compulsory) and medical care and the incredible advances of such care, access to so much media and information at the fingertips, widespread literacy (if you want to stay in the free school), the average comfort we enjoy, transportation and mobility, and the Historically low crime rates, the Spread of Democracies, the rule of Law, the concept of political, religious and economic Liberties and yes "Human Rights" - by whatever metric of betterment one can choose. Yes we can always find disparity of wealth with a large percentage concentrated at the top. Although if I had to stake my reputation on it I'd want to oversee the calculations - and the "rich" would point to the progressive tax code, with justice.
I'm not buying into we are all one, are supposed to be, redistributive Democracy - I vote my way into your pocket . If it wasn't obvious. But I really think by any reasonable metric we are far better off as the average man in the USA or the West/Developed Nations than the medieval Kings of old. Safer as well.
Hey Londonstani, Why don't
Hey Londonstani,
Why don't you prevent terrorism by getting off your high horse and save us from your holier than thou sermon! Love it or leave it!
Here is a link to tonights
Here is a link to tonights 60 Minutes CBS show. The episode is callled, "The Harlem's Children's Zone". It is about Geoffrey Canada's vision to helping children from poor families to break the cycle. This is more about education, but it also gives a child some hope and direction. Give a child a future, you have happy parents.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5914322n
"On the battlefields of Iraq
"On the battlefields of Iraq and/or Afghanistan, the young soldiers they would face would likely include the white youngsters who joined up hoping the army was their way out of Southmead."
sigh.
be careful.
I love hearing stories about
I love hearing stories about the hell-hole that has become Great Britain! Empire is great for a while, then all of the peoples of the colonies come home to roost. Enoch Powell was a prophet.
When I was in (Catholic) grade school in the mid 1970's, one of our janitors was a former ARVN officer. I think the church was helping out with the refugee problem and he was given a job at our parish, lived free in a small house near the convent, and his children attended school with us. He moved on after a few years as he obtained a better job. We were all sad to see him go, he was real nice to all the students and his children were well liked.
When Iraq turns bad again, how many refugees will America have to accept? Our Empire is going to bite us in the ass. How many Major Nidal Hasans are in our future?
Visitor on December 6, 2009
Visitor on December 6, 2009 - 3:31pm
Get a chance, watch a movie called The Exiles, an old B&W Film about Native American Indians living in LA....and how they deal with life off the reservation. Very similar in the lifestyles / choices many Paki's are currently dealing with in the UK. It's an excellent movie to see the culture induced shock for those living in the "estates". Rent it...you'll learn a lot from it.
As for your comment: "was reading “One Tribe and a time”, it is not a new concept. It does point out the need to connect with the community, each group may have different needs. I have seen movement in US law enforcement to apply COIN to gang violence.
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The DOJ started a tuition assistance program to increase community policing in major cities back in the late 90's. That program was called Police Corps and it originated out of Baltimore, MD. The Police Corps was a competitive college scholarship program for students who agree to work in a state or local police force for at least four years. Most had to spend 80% of their work time walking a beat, riding a bike and interacting with people like those who live in "estates". This scholarship fund covered education expenses, including tuition, fees, books, supplies, transportation, room and board, and miscellaneous expenses. I believe it has changed titles and is now called COPS Hiring Recovery Program (CHRP). This American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 allocates $1 billion to the U.S. Department of Justice Office of Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) for the COPS Hiring Recovery Program (CHRP). Approximately 5,500 additional sworn law enforcement officers will be added to agencies across the country through funding provided by this program. The grant program will be open to law enforcement agencies nationwide.
http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/Default.asp?Item=65
Many of the same applications in the COPS program and in COIN apply to community policing. Many of the concepts also evolved from how the British dealt with the IRA and those living in the "estates" in Ireland in the early 90's. Community policing and COIN are concepts that have been around for a long time. Both are manpower hungry and both are extremely expensive.
If there is anything Andrew could do, if he could figure out a way to make COIN less expensive, that would be the greatest idea of all...
Dear sir-my respect grows. I
Dear sir-my respect grows. I too have been lucky enough to observe and learn as I blended into inumerable cultures. Nevertheless, despite your empathy sometimes it is just plain impossible to change a mindset so firmly set in concrete as the teachings of Islam.
You cannot overcome the word of Allah as wispered to Mohammed by the angel Gabriel. We in the West only think that we have to try to understand and relate to a 'religion' of peace. Wrong. There is no 'mind melding' with the majority of muslims. The only accomodation with non-believers is if we conform and pay a tithe to charity. Only then can Allah be forgiving and merciful.
The weight of fatwas and teachings in the Koran that sanction and encourage death to non-believers is far outweighed by mercy. Incitement to violence runs corporatively from the top to the lowliest of the true believers. Osama bin Laden and nearly all jihadists justified their actions against non-believers by citing the Koran.
Which teachings in the Koran dissuaded a single suicide bomber from violence against non-believers? The answer is none. We must NOT see Islam through the prism of Christian values. "Slay all idolaters" is not harmonious with "love your neighbors" and "turn the other cheek."
Yet like you so cogently point out we must try to improve the lot for all immigrants. I add an essential corallary---Muslims, like all immigrants must agree to confirm to their adopted countrys' laws and values. Then they will be free to practice their religion. Understanding must be two sided. There can be no exceptions.
Our President knows this. Any man capable of bringing peace between the millions of Muslims and the West is necessary, but I fear I will not see this in my lifetime. America is a Christian nation and we will strive to bring your compasion to bear, but only if we remain vigilant against all religions, ideologies, and sects that may mean our great country harm, both internationally but especially domestically.
God Bless Us All!
I remain
Sincerely,
sasdigger
Sorta. On disenfranchised
Sorta. On disenfranchised youth....
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/07/children-of-deployed-tro...
"In January, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates told Congress that by October, combat troops should get 15 months at home for every 12 months deployed. The dwell time, Mr. Gates said, should increase to 30 months by October 2011. "
ROFL. That must be a service wide average. I'd love to see the breakdown by BCT's, SF groups, MEF's, and by MOS, especially Combat Arms MOS's: 11B, 19D/19K, O3R, 18 anything, 12B, 13B, 13F, 31B, 38A, 97 MOS...etc.
It would break down to something like for every 15 months deployed, 30 weeks (at best) at home. At best.
Yes, we sign up for it. Just don't insult our intelligence, and stop Bullshitting the Public.
BTW I would love to be proved wrong, and the ...er...talking points quoted above proved right.
Waiting.
Just an observation. Has
Just an observation.
Has anyone asked Radical Islam what they want from the developed world? I keep hearing. "we want you out of our lands". Does that mean that we can ask them to leave our countries too? Fair is fair.
Then there is a darker side. Some believe, not me included, that Radical Islam wants to spread and gain influence in the world. For the sake of radicalizing.
What is the answer. Can we put Radical Islam into one group and treat them the same way? Londonstani, maybe you can help us out. It is really asking the same question from the other side. Think the discussion in the UK and the US is, "what is it the you want us to do, we're trying to figure you out?".
What is Radical Islam's identity?
I look at Iran and think, these guys want to blame anybody but them selves for their problems. Maybe my Western mind is just too small to wrap around this issue. If they want us (rest of the world) to roll and die, we have an answer to that. Funny, I just realized that today is Pearl Harbor Day (9/11 Japanese style). I am glad that General MacAurther allowed the Japanese save face after the surrender. America did not occupy Japan, we helped them (and Europe too). Which country on the face of this planet would do that? Time to honor our dead, the guys that gave their lives so Japan could have a prosperous economy.
6/12, 13:06 "Axe to grind" -
6/12, 13:06 "Axe to grind" - if so then it's an axe we really need to understand. The man is trying to explain something which most of us don't understand. Whether you agree with his conclusions is irrelevent (not that I'm seeing anything very controversial) - it's the insight we need.
"What is Radical Islam's
"What is Radical Islam's identity? " I would really would like to meet this Radical Islam guy too. he seems like a interesting fellow.
Seriously, we do ourselves a disfavour with approaching any phenomena as a monolithic body of ideas. The whole idea of a unified Radical Islam is playing along with the textbook developed by the haters. Its like talking about Jews, or Radical Judaism as a generalized entity.
""what is it the you want us
""what is it the you want us to do, we're trying to figure you out?".
Not that tough to figure out, they have been telling us for 14 centuries...
Roll over and die, or Aslim Taslim. Submit to Islam. Lan Astaslam say I. Or F*ck You, if one prefers. Probably what the SouthMeadie's are saying in their own charming Chavingunese Way. Yes, we do have an answer.
@Fnord 23:59...that's like saying because Sicilians are good cooks and most of them aren't in the Mafia, the Mafia should be ignored.
The Worlds supply of Radical Jews who do violence could fit comfortably inside a good sized bus. Radical Jews wanting to spread Judaism by the Sword? Force conversions? Can we find one in all of History to include the Old Testament? They want a small strip of land to call their own, because after thousands of years of persecution culminating in genocide they realized without a state behind them they were helpless and would be wiped out.
A good Muslim converts to
A good Muslim converts to Christianily-- even better to the LDS.
Swords? What good is a sword
Swords? What good is a sword against a bomb? Get real, Elf - and join the 21st Century.
It seems like the problem is
It seems like the problem is with the fact that these lads happen to be Muslims. You don't see radical Hindus emerging from the council estates, and blowing themselves up in the tube do you?
Visitor: I havent seen much
Visitor: I havent seen much of hindu lands being attacked recently, either. I have a feeling that if the US was to occupy Kashmir, the percentage of hindu bombers would rise.
For a understandding of the muslim to US killratio these last 30 years, see : http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/11/30/why_they_hate_us_ii_how_m...
In the Koran, Allah orders
In the Koran, Allah orders Muslims to kill Christians and Jews. They are just pleasing their Allah and following his orders. Remember the kinder, gentler Chapters in the Koran is superceded, substituted with something better (mansookh), by the more violent Chapters. This is the true Islam.
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