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Taliban United
We have touched in this blog on developments that seem to suggest the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban groups have started working ever-more closely together. This article by David Rohde of the New York Times makes spells out the case more explicitly by drawing on Antonio Giustozzi's latest book
"The Taliban and their cause have moved effortlessly across national, ethnic, and tribal boundaries. Claudio Franco describes how Pakistan's tribal areas have served as a base for the Taliban's resurgence in Afghanistan and in Pakistan. In December 2007, the Taliban commander Baitullah Mehsud was able to create an alliance of Pakistani jihadi groups, which ranged from Sunni hard-liners eager to kill Shia, to Punjabi militants eager to kill Indian forces in Kashmir, to Pashtuns eager to topple American-backed leaders in Kabul and Islamabad. Mehsud, who was killed in an American drone strike in August 2009*, blocked Pakistani government efforts to split the Pakistani Taliban along tribal lines.
"Baitullah's masterstroke was his involvement in the creation of the TTP in December 2007," Franco writes, using the acronym for the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan, or Taliban Movement of Pakistan. "Treating the FATA [Federally Administered Tribal Areas] like a section of the Muslim Ummah, and tribals as a single community of believers, the brains behind the TTP were able to introduce a mutual assistance mechanism designed to break the government's strategy."
Franco writes that the Pakistani and Afghan Taliban both operate under a loose Taliban command structure headed by the longtime Afghan Taliban commander Mullah Omar. Broad directives are issued by Mullah Omar, but local Taliban ground commanders in both countries carry out local operations as they see fit. He concludes that the Pakistani Taliban and Afghan Taliban are wings of the same broad Taliban movement. "The Afghan Taliban never appear as an external actor," he writes. "They direct the Pakistanis as if they were another of their regional Wilayat, or governorates."
Another important point to look at in the article is how the "semi wild men of the tribal lands" (as a starry-eyed aid worker in Islamabad once said) have become pretty clever at the old technology thing:
"In her essay, "Reading the Taliban," in the Giustozzi volume, Joanna Nathan marvels at the Taliban's haphazard, yet sophisticated and extremely effective p.r. strategy. A movement that seemed to reject modernity in the 1990s is now adept at using technology to monitor its enemy, disseminate its message, and shape its image. One Taliban commander operating just south of Kabul in Wardak Province, for example, recognized the publicity value of carrying out attacks near Kabul. "Being near Kabul allows the news and military events that happen here to reach all the international media outlets," he told Al Somood, the Taliban's official magazine, in 2008. "For instance, when we destroyed 54 logistics vehicles in July, local and international journalists rushed to report the event."
The idea that Taliban leaders think of informational influence as an integral part of their operational planning actually puts them a few steps ahead of their ISAF and Pakistani opponents.
Rohde makes two very nail-on-the-head conclusions.
1. All this talk of talking to the Taliban seems a little too hopeful if you consider that the Taliban (whichever branch) sees itself as doing pretty well at the moment. Why start thinking about negotiating when you feel you are winning (ie managing to stay in the fight) and your opponent is talking about leaving in a year and a bit?
2. An Afghan surge is unlikely to work while the Afghan Taliban is drawing on support from its now integrated branch on the other side of the Durand Line. However, this article was probably written before news emerged of the arrests made by Pakistan, which we talked about here and here.
But, considering the mystery surrounding Pakistan's intentions in relation to those arrests and their possible repercussions, it's worth keeping Rohde's final words in mind.
"Another scenario is more likely, and arguably more frightening. There is one prospect worse than Pakistani influence over the Afghan Taliban, and that is the Afghan Taliban’s immunity to Pakistani influence. Pakistan’s generals may find that in fact they now do not have the influence over the hard-line Afghan Taliban that they believe. A new generation of Afghan Taliban might remain unwaveringly committed to the jihad that they are waging with their Arab, Uzbek, and Pakistani brethren. They could hunker down in their tribal area strongholds and dare the Pakistani army to dislodge them. What then? As the American troop presence in the region shrinks in 2011 and 2012, the Afghan Taliban could re-emerge with a vengeance."
Stephen Tankel on:
Stephen Tankel on: http://icsr.info/blog/Busted refers to 'The biggest question, for me at least, is what this says about Pakistan's calculus'.....'maybe Pakistan concluded that the best way to guarantee a seat at the table was to show the U.S. that it deserved one'.
From afar and in a comfortable 'armchair" a couple of points:
a) Was the Pakistani action coordinated? We assume it was.
b) Did the Pakistani ISI know the Quetta Shura well enough to identify the 'hardliners' and others? May they have made a mistake in those arrested?
c) The arrests also coincide with the decision whether to grant extensions to the active service of General Keyani, as Army Commander and the head of ISI.
"The idea that Taliban
"The idea that Taliban leaders think of informational influence as an integral part of their operational planning actually puts them a few steps ahead of their ISAF and Pakistani opponents."
*cough* Bullshit *cough*
kind of flies in the face of
kind of flies in the face of the Petraeus plan to bring the Taliban in. even if the Taliban was doing poorly, they simply have to wait until we withdraw next year.
Why don't we just allow our
Why don't we just allow our vets and other entrepreneurs to open up massage parlors, strip joints and buy-me-drinkie bars in Afghanistan? Afghan girls have plenty of potential.
Let's bring back the 70s, remember Bangkok, "me love you long time" Vietnam, Japan, the P.I.? Those were the fun days, when it was good to be in the military. Now a days, not only are we expected to hold our nuts blue for the whole 4 years of enlistment, we have to watch our six from in coming overly happy torpedoes ramming your anal cavity because the gays now own the military and they're worst than women when scorned.
If we start screwing Muslim women, these ragheads will know whose boss, it worked in Southeast Asia and Japan, them gooks knew who was boss. Mamasan made sure her girls loved us long time. How miss those Thai baskets and those ping-pong balls (how do they do it?). We need to stop being gay and fuck the shit out of these backward retards. Bring back the 70s.
Would fucking their women
Would fucking their women count as an integral part of Information Operations?
There's potential here: as in - if you want us to stay forever and start fucking your women, liberating them from your backwards misogynist selves - keep fighting. Stop fighting and we'll leave, and stop fucking your women. Oh, and stop growing heroin too, you scumbags.
Shit by their own rules this is fair. To the victors go the spoils.
"They could hunker down in
"They could hunker down in their tribal area strongholds and dare the Pakistani army to dislodge them".
ISI and other hardline Paki's will always be a part of the Taliban, in my eyes, they have always been part of the Taliban. The US Marines should just steam on through the tribal area strongholds into Pakistan and end this thing. It's going on for too long and Pakistan will always be our secret enemy, saying one thing to our face with a smile and a knife behind their back ready to cut our throat like Daniel Pearl. We need to stop wasting our time with diplomacy and bull*tit joint operations with Pakistan and just occupy them and find the remainder of the Taliban and eliminate them.
Lets stop fooling ourselves, Pakistan has always been the problem and OBL wouldn't be alive today if it wasn't for the assistance he's received from the Pakistan government over the last two decades.
A must-see video for gaining
A must-see video for gaining a little understanding of the arms situation in the Pakistani 'tribal areas'. The title is "The biggest illegal arms market, how the Taliban is getting their arms." It's made by Suroosh Alvi of VBS-TV, in 2006?
Intro: "I've been watching the mainstream media in America, and every few months they say the war in Afghanistan is over. Whenever I hear that, I say to myself, "How can that be, I've been there, I've seen kids making guns with their bare hands, in caves. I just don't buy it - the war isn't over. So I asked my mom to call her buddy - he's the governor of the northwest province of Pakistan. He got us into the tribal areas - which is a big deal, because the BBC calls it the most dangerous part of the world, and all foreign journalists have been banned from their. But, we got out own private militia, and they took us through the biggest illegal arms market on the planet."
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6ee_1224215299
That seems to be the more complete version - or, try
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-guide-to-travel/the-gun-markets-of-pakistan
Interesting...another over
Interesting...another over used term...."the lens or prism"...maybe I can think of a better metaphor.
General Strange Love:36pm...holster your gun. Bang-cock, plays by a different set of rules. It would not be right to put in a Wal-mart distribution center either.
If Afghanistan wants to live in the past, then good for them. What is wrong with family values? Maybe they could tone down the beheadings a little....it is their country not ours. All we really want is a pax and an agreement to keep the bed bugs off our turf. If the muslim world has some odd ball idea of world dominance, then that is a different story all together.
Time to take a step away. What about the other war? Iraq???
The day is now. South America...between the military and the DEA that is a chunk of change. Iraq, seems to me they had an economy before the US got involved. Why are we doing welfare in Iraq? Doesn't Iraq have oil fields? Af/Pak ditto, same argument less the oil. Africa, Haiti, and god knows were else we are stacking up spending. I am waiting for the gravy train to turn towards Chile...they just had an 8.5 earthquake....think they have a lot a babies that need saving...How about an operation babylift for Chile. Yup, that was some of our GI's handy work in Vietnam, another generation of people who do not know who they are......US spent $450M (that does not include the NGO's) in Haiti and we have not yet paid for the ten year plan yet!
We can not take care of our our country. Why do we keep wanting to change others? (It ain't about health care, it is about opprotunity.) You guys in Washington don't believe me....then take the Green Line or head to Bling Bling street. It is happening across America.
The answer to how long it will take in Afghanistan is........How long does it take to change a Religion?
I figure generations. You start with the children....we have been doing in American since the 60's and you can see the effect!
"We need to stop wasting our
"We need to stop wasting our time with diplomacy and bull*tit joint operations with Pakistan and just occupy them and find the remainder of the Taliban and eliminate them."
Fascinating to see how Abu M seems to have become the home for delusionals. I guess that the US has another phantom army stationed in outer space, ready to roll through Pakistan and into Iran? And then u can rape their women and destroy islam, right? WIth your 6 million strong fantasy army, propably driving large robotech battlebots backed up by the League of justice and the whole DC universe of superheroes? (Im saying DC because even marvel is more balanced than some of the fantasy shit I read on here).
It sad to see open anti-muslim racism being accepted as a norm, tho. The stereotype of the moneygrubbing other with a knife behind his back as he smiles his oily smile to the easily fooled aryans is an old classic one.Im guessing phantasising about butchering jews wouldnt play quite so well. But hey...
1. If your Muslim you have
1. If your Muslim you have nothing to say about bigotry and hatred till you get your own house in order. Hint: Milk Hatred.
2. If you do you come across as a whiny tough guy. Boring.
3. We mobilized 16 million when we had a population of 130 million - that was then. Now it's 310 million. And growing. Six million is not such a stretch, we've got about 3 million on the books now, plus tens of millions of veterans.
4. Actually you're right about the battle bots. But you forgot the nukes.
5. Rape and pillage. Divinely sanctioned, I thought?
6. The Pakistani's did take our money with knives behind their backs. For generations.
7. Destroy Islam. May happen. But don't worry about it being us. I'd look East if I were you.
Zak, we're kinda stuck with
Zak, we're kinda stuck with repeating the last 10 years over and over again.
Intervene. Walk away thinking they can handle it, perhaps stay behind presence. They can't. Flares up. Back in. Perhaps something bad happens in the USA again. Repeat until one or both sides get tired of fighting. They're betting it's going to be us. I don't blame them.
The current not so secret plan: 12-18 mos of hammering the Talib, then transition to FID (think - advisors) and mostly leave. Continue with CT. Keep fingers crossed they won't get by (they will).
Their plan: wait us out, quite possibly in many cases by cutting a deal with us or Pakistan. Then ease back into Jihad.
Attacks against the West, NY, America, London, Glasglow - to be resumed after decent pause. The Heroin Trade will remain a constant.
As far as our problems and your other concerns: vote out all incumbents next 2 election cycles. Only hope for the Republic, at least by peaceful means.
Sorry for the broken link
Sorry for the broken link above in my 9:53am post....
http://www.understandingwar.org/press-media/webcast/future-iraq-conversa...
Ray Odierno is talking about the elections in Iraq...Three part video that was done on 16feb10
. . . Elf, I think I know
.
.
. Elf, I think I know what you mean......I think I know what you mean........(sound of head hitting the wall)......
Just feeling a little pennyless right now.
There will always be a fire somewhere. Iraq could turn out to be a great place, then ten years down the road they turn on us. It does not work to mirco manage the world.
Better idea.....Put the money in the bank and pay down our debt. Get some form of acceptable health care for everyone.... and legalize concealed carry in all fifty states.
Maybe take a que from the Swiss, Turks, and Israel.
US citizen?......do the service. Make the fifty a saver place.
"It sad to see open
"It sad to see open anti-muslim racism being accepted as a norm"
Love this stuff. Open you eyes Bro.
US just dropped ONE TRILLION to make you a home land.....................We did it for oil....ya right....look at who Iraq gave the oil field contracts to ! Wake up.
Iraq == Democracy.......that means that you are all FREE to practice the religions that you want to practice......
If the means that you still what strap explosives to your children's butt and light them off....Uncle Sam might buy you the C4 as long as you do it in your living room and not here in America.
As far was what folks say here in America....we got a democracy here too....folks tend to say what makes them happy. We don't sent out the folks with the long knives to change their minds. We just discuss the issues.
If you don't like it.....your free to go anywhere that makes you happy......
The best movie to capture
The best movie to capture this divide is the latest Rambo flick. In which the bothersome, naive missionaries are represented by fnord, abu muqawama, and the rest of the anti-DADT gay brigade. While elf and Zak represent the realistic, practical mercenaries bought to save the missionaries. Of course, Gian Gentile is Rambo.
Rambo IX, Hysterical.
Rambo IX,
Hysterical. Actually I think AM ends up as Rambo, but peacefully teaching Greek to young native children (who are also learning electrical engineering so they can make bombs, but not from him). Zak is the electrical engineer teacher who figures it out and gets kidnapped. GG is Col. Samuel Trautman warning to bring a good supply of body bags.
I want to be the merc that lives BTW.
If our military wasn't so
If our military wasn't so Gay,
and we kept real bad ass mutherfakas like Bob Howard, Billy Waugh, Cofer Black, Gen. Mattis, Nate Fick and Gian Gentile,
we'd have kick the asses of these Muslim fucks a long time ago.
But since our military's priority is to stroke the penises of Gay men to the tune of "It's Raining Men, Hallelujah!!!", while watching "Brokeback Mountain", our military in turn has become Gay.
We should group all these overly, active and vociferous (sometimes flaming)) Gay men (especially that Korean chap from West Point) in our ranks and place them into their own Brigade,
HALO qualify them all, then drop them in the middle of Pashtunistan, with gallons of KY His&Hers brand personal lubricant, tons of Chapsticks and have them keep the Taliban and those Tribes busy with Gay Pride parades, restoring curb appeal and everything else Gays do. We can resupply them with leather gear, more KY, bright happy colour paint and Barbara Streisand CDs.
By doing this, we would also be saving many goats and little boys from sure sodomy at the hands of these Muslims.
I believe the Gays will prefer to stay since there are many "tough" looking fellas in Pashtunistan, thus solving our Gay problem in our Military, while saving the women, children and livestock.
CNAS, please leak this plan in .pdf format and let's make this policy.
AM as Rambo......I like
AM as Rambo......I like that. Hope my character makes it though his ordeal. Things they do to kidnapped people in those movies. Guess I will have to tuff it out....name....rank...and serial number.
Sounds like your on a roll with the script. Funny thing is if we made the movie, it would sell. Sad part is there might more hard cash in it than consulting for CNAS.......maybe a lot more fun too.
Since we're scaring off all of AM real customers, I guess we owe him that much.
I'll get to work on the technicals.
What are you taking about,
What are you taking about, Rambo III is the one you want to watch...
John Rambo's former Vietnam superior, Colonel Samuel Trautman, has been assigned to lead a mission to help the Mujahedeen rebels who are fighting the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan...
Wow, who was it who was overseeing the Afghanistan situation in the 1980s and 1990s, again? Why should we kick "the asses of these Muslim fucks", as you put it - aren't they our Cold War allies? Or maybe just some of them... makes your head hurt, doesn't it, just thinking about it?
P.S. Obsessing over DADT seems a little odd... repressing your personal identity can lead to that kind of fixation, you know? The U.S. military has always been willing to accept whatever intelligent cannon fodder shows up at the desk - it's why we win. All shades of skin color, women, any religion you want - mutts and pure-breds, whatever. Get over it.
" The U.S. military has
" The U.S. military has always been willing to accept whatever intelligent cannon fodder shows up at the desk - it's why we win. All shades of skin color, women, any religion you want - mutts and pure-breds, whatever. Get over it."
How many wars have we won since integration? Gunny Tom Highway was 0-1-1 'til Grenada.
"In November 2004 the world
"In November 2004 the world watched - periodically, depending on the focus of the media gaze - as the US Marine Corps engaged ‘insurgents’ in a brutal battle (Operation Phantom Fury) in Fallujah, Iraq. For all their high-tech weaponry, precision munitions, and exceptional training, in their search-and-destroy mission occupation forces all but obliterated Fallujah. During the month-long siege of Fallujah more than 200,000 residents fled the city. Out of these ruins, occupation forces stated they were erecting a ‘model city’, complete with a high-tech security infrastructure centered on biometric identification strategies to manage returning citizens. Returnees received digital fingerprinting, facial recognition and were iris scanned. Some received DNA swabs and their voices were recorded. Citizen were issued a mandatory identity badge displaying the individual’s home address and collected biometric data. According to the Pentagon, Operation Phantom Fury went precisely ‘according to plan’."
My question is, will there be more Fallujah style battles or civil unrest (no matter how its starts) so the US military can collect biometric information? Also, how do biometrics work into COIN? Can someone explain that?
Lets hear some feedback on this website too. Thanks.
http://www.biometrics.dod.mil/
Biometrics are taken of
Biometrics are taken of people who work for us, detainees, suspects, etc....it was usually a map of the face. Goes into a database, helps us to catch people. For example we caught people in Iraq with US criminal records (they were in the insurgency).
Did a web search to find
Did a web search to find instatances of biometric data use in Afghanistan....and found this.
The Defence Minister Abdul Rahim Wardak said most insurgents had “hidden or escaped”. Three suspected bombmakers were identified via biometric tests and arrested trying to escape disguised as civilians.
There is another article in an off-line publication where insurgent sniping became a major problem in Iraq and part of the defense force solution was biometric information. For each sniping incident, crime scene information was collected and a database created. As the database grew and comparisons made to other biometric databases patterns emerged. In addition to the biometric, insurgent modes of operation were found and counter tactics created.
In convention warfare, combatants are identified by uniform. In a counterinsurgency such as in Afghanistan, the enemy are dressed the same as the civilian population. That creates much hazard for engagement. In order to indentify who is who, Police investigation methods are useful tools.
The Fallujah biometric information that your questioning is being used to minimize the war impact on the "good guys" in the COIN conflict.
You can cry foul about the collection of the data. In reality, biometrics are part of our modern reality. If you drive a car, use credit, pay taxes, purchase merchandise with a credit card, gone to school, had a job, purchased a home, rented an apartment, have a passport, flown on a plane, sent something on the internet, own/use a cell phone, been fingerprinted for a back ground check, gone to a Doctor, walked through a metropolitan area and a whole lot more, chances are you have had biometric data collected on you. It might not be strictly defined as "biometric" (ie DNA), but it defines your habits as a human.
Some marketing agency somewhere is paying for the pleasure of your personal buying habits to send you a packet full of the latest shopping coupons.
In today's information processing age, data is the currency.
@ Zak I'm not crying foul,
@ Zak
I'm not crying foul, but in this information age there are a lot of people who use, sell and manipulate information for their own personal benefit and to fit their own agenda. You said it yourself. - "Data is currency" and some people will do anything for it or to it, to get ahead.
Additionally, the human mind and personal habits are much more complex than any computer program and/or database. There are always unaccounted for variables. This is why the FBI hires people with Masters Degrees and PhD's in Forensic Psychology to profile crime scenes and help prosecute criminal cases.
I'd like to ask how many DoD personnel, that compile and maintain this DoD Biometric Database have PhD's in Forensic Psychology, are skilled professional's in evidence collection, have testified in federal court and are certified by the U.S. Department of Justice as Criminal Investigators? Probably very few or maybe none, since I didn't see one person's name from DCIS, NCIS, OSI, Army CID on that ridiculous web-page.
Zak, we are talking about a bunch of biometric information inside a database collected and compiled by a bunch of wanna-be gum-shoe soldiers and "on-the-take" contractors, who have never been certified by any legal authority. That's pretty scary Zak. Especially, when a subject's data has been collected, they become a refugee and then a US Citizen. We are talking about some serious privacy violations and who's updating and guarding the database to ensure that US citizen's personal privacy and rights aren't violated?
Lastly, based just on your response and my knowledge of Narrative Psychology, I would have problems trusting you having access to a biometric database. Think about that for a moment. Let it sink in.
"William F. Buckley said he would rather be governed by the first 300 names in the Boston telephone book than by the faculty of Harvard." - I'm with him.
@Kratos, "I'd like to ask
@Kratos,
"I'd like to ask how many DoD personnel, that compile and maintain this DoD Biometric Database have PhD's in Forensic Psychology.."
You must work in govt or academia. Degrees don't overawe the great unwashed the way they used too. Or perhaps you work at Goldman Sachs? PhD's are the reason we can't win wars, have accurate intelligence, budget, and guys with degrees broke the world financial system and committed fraud and massive embezzlement doing it. I could go on...
"William F. Buckley said he would rather be governed by the first 300 names in the Boston telephone book than by the faculty of Harvard." - I'm with him."
So am I, but that statement doesn't match up with the PhD worship.
As far as the privacy biometric concerns: privacy and the rest go out the window in a war zone, as do most rules or impediments to victory. Whatever you believe or have been led to believe about COIN being some kind of benevolent social program. Sure it is. As long as 1) you're on our side, 2) Our side is winning, 3) We're both still useful to each other. See the fate of our interpreters or the Sons Of Iraq. 4) You're not too much in the way. 5) you are pointing out who to kill so we don't kill you.
As far as our using police and forensic tactics: tools in the box. Being cop, social worker, NGO, construction assistance, contractors, diplomat...turns out there's a lot of skills we pick up.
I suppose we could go back to mulching by fire all in our path, but I don't think that's PC right now.
Elf - you win. But what
Elf - you win.
But what about when the wars are over? then what? I can speculate that biometric and other databases might be misused, but that information will never hit the general public.
You know, I'm not even going to argue about it. I'm going to just accept that fact that here in no privacy, we live in a police state where gov. agencies can do anything they want and we should be thankful. I should place complete trust in my government to not abuse it's authority, hell....I may even sell off all my licensed personal firearms, because I have nothing to fear. Yes, I shouldn't doubt the blanket of security that people like you provide me and I'll just keep my mouth shut.
Thanks for providing me clarity.
Elf, Thanks for following up
Elf, Thanks for following up with Kratos.....
Kratos....I am with Elf on the use of the data....
Kratos, your response has a wide bandwidth.....Think we started out in Iraq and ended up in the United States some how. As far as a war zone goes. Iraq is a foreign country. If the Iraq people have an issue with the US forces then the folks in Iraq need to discuss that with the US and Iraq's management. Our military is well trained, the information that we are talking about is not really that sensitive. DNA maybe, a photograph can be taken in any public place.
In the US, that is a different story all together. Rules change greatly. The cop on the streets are not PhD's and they have a lot of data available to them. I do not loose sleep over that at night. If anything, I sleep better.
Know a lot of folks in Law Enforcement. They are all profressionals, have not ran into a bad one yet. They really have our best interests in mind.
Elf: As far as the privacy
Elf:
As far as the privacy biometric concerns: privacy and the rest go out the window in a war zone, as do most rules or impediments to victory.
How does that square with this:
“The population is not the enemy,” Brig. Gen. Larry Nicholson, the commander of the Marines in southern Afghanistan, told a group of troops this week. “The population is the prize — they are why we are going in.”
If respecting local customs (not sending male soldiers to search the women's quarters, etc.) means winning the prize, then dipshit gung-ho attitudes are themselves an impediment to victory, right?
“We don’t want Falluja,” General McChrystal said in an interview this week. “Falluja is not the model.”
As far as the domestic policing issue:
Uncontrolled access to sensitive personal information by a country's security services branch tends to lead to corruption and outright crime. This is because any clever person can immediately see the benefits to be derived from eavesdropping on CEO conversations about their future stock offerings, etc. This kind of thing is pretty common:
Ex-Agent Sentenced in Insider Trading
BLOOMBERG NEWS
July 13, 2006
A federal judge sentenced a former agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation to three years probation yesterday for obstruction of justice related to the insider-trading prosecution of a stock picker.
The former agent, Lynn Wingate, was also sentenced to 550 hours of community service and fined $2,500 in Brooklyn federal court, said Bob Nardoza, a spokesman for Roslynn R. Mauskopf, the United States attorney in Brooklyn. Prosecutors had asked Judge Raymond J. Dearie of the United States District Court to impose a 10- to 16-month prison term on Ms. Wingate, who pleaded guilty to making unauthorized computer searches on behalf of the stock picker, Anthony Elgindy, and an accomplice, court papers said.
This issue was foreseen by those who put the separation of powers at the center of the Constitution - because if the judicial branch, at least some small key portion of it, knows exactly what the FBI is up to, then blatant corruption is less likely. The lifting of those restrictions raises the temptations for criminal activity, if not political manipulation - say, busting politicians with prostitutes by tracking their cell phone conversations - one theory behind the public downfall of Eliot Spitzer.
@ Zak Sorry I didn't specify
@ Zak
Sorry I didn't specify - I was referring to refugees, who become LPR's and then citizens of the United States, during and after a war. We are talking about tens of thousands of people from Iraq and Afghanistan. What about their privacy rights? Who's going to remove their information from that database and who is going to maintain the database to ensure this happens? Also, I concur on the facial recognition photographs, but fingerprints, DNA and Iris scans do not fit "no expectation of privacy".
Also Zak, the FBI and any law enforcement agency in the U.S. is required by law to return and/or destroy all fingerprints, photos and evidence of an arrest, to an individual who receives an acquittal in contemplation of dismissal, their charges are dismissed or their arrest is discovered to be improper and/or unlawful. This means if you're detained, arrested and evidence / biometric information is collected against your will by the US Government, the government is required "by law" to destroy and/or return that information and the report to the individual who was detained or arrested. If this means we allow a process for individuals who request their records to have them destroyed, then so be it.
Additionally, I want to point out regular cops on the street typically attend an accredited (by DOJ) academy, some 6 months in length. DoD personal do not, unless they are working for OSI, DCIS, NCIS or CID. Random individuals who do not have the proper MOS training to collect and maintain this evidence / information is very dangerous in my eyes.
When most of our laws and constitution was drafted, computers didn't exist and we didn't have technology like we do today...with that being said, we must evolve to protect our own government and people. With that, I propose the Posse Comitatus Act (18 U.S.C. § 1385) and should probably be amended or updated to protect US citizen's rights and their privacy. When the war ends in a specific region the database gets destroyed after 5 years. Time-lines should be set up....there should be oversight by other agencies or branches of government and there should laws designed to protect this information, so those who violate the terms will receive punishment and time in prison, like these FBI agents who engaged in insider trading.
Does this make sense?
Kratos, I agree is it a
Kratos, I agree is it a sticky problem. Humans are not perfect and the laws we make reflect that.
Think you touched on the differences in customs and laws between countries. I have no problems with where you are going in your thinking process. At the same time, I do not have the level of concern that you have.
I mean think about it. Fingerprints, DNA maps, and Iris scans. What can you do with it? Guess you can come up with a lot of boogie man stories that exist in Tom Clancey or Dan Brown novels. Bottom line is if you live by the laws of the land, the government has no reason use to the information. That is the reason I do not loose sleep about it.
My personal life has been ground through background checks and I have no control over that data. We give up rights to serve our country and enjoy our constitutional freedoms. Sounds little odd doesn't it, but it happens. You have to prove that your are good enough to be a citizen. Anyone that has joined the military knows what I am talking about. In fact, I think bloodstain cards are kept on record for identification of remains for all deployed military personnel. Those cards are DNA samples, on government file.
Reminds me of one of my father's comments. He was in the Navy in WW2. On ship, they were plied like cord wood. There was no room or comfort, and they could die the next moment. My father was watching a news report of prison conditions a few years ago. The inmates were complaining about not having cable TV, air conditioning, and privacy. I do not think that I need say what the comments were.
It is a question about where to draw the line, who has rights to our personal information. What is the definition of personal information? I will let the Supreme Court sort those question out. I respect their judgment.
If you are a US citizen, it sounds like you have a long letter to write to your Congressman. Then get a good nights sleep.
PS....People should be more concerned about having their credit card number hijacked or on-line bank information stolen.
g.d. @12:03am If respecting
g.d. @12:03am
If respecting local customs (not sending male soldiers to search the women's quarters, etc.) means winning the prize, then dipshit gung-ho attitudes are themselves an impediment to victory, right?
gd.....Ever been through team work building? That is the core of military training. Zak did it in a corporation. There is a lot of HOOOORAAAA. It is about morale and sprit. We are all guilty of puffing up our chests from time to time. Look at where we have been and where we are going in Afghanistan. The level of attention to the civilian population has not been greater......
As far as the domestic policing issue:
gd....The invention of the Xerox did away with secrets. Proprietary took a back seat to Globalization.
Google fabricating evidence,
Google fabricating evidence, see how many hits you get.
You live in a world where no one is evil don't you Zak?
You'll be very surprised what will change over the next few years with our current Supreme Court. Some of the good, some for the bad.
This might be one of those changes.
. . . We all meet evil, it
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We all meet evil, it has a lot of faces. How we deal with evil is what defines us.
Some of us packet up in a suit case and carrry it with us, others look it straight in the eye and move on.
The happiest people I know, have no burdens.
Learn to trust people and lighten your load.
@Kratos, No, you shouldn't
@Kratos,
No, you shouldn't blindly trust anyone. As far as selling your guns: well you would be selling into a sellers market, right?
I am just explaining that in a war zone privacy concerns, rather like tort, go out the window. Can that lead to potential abuse? Well one answer is yes, just like everything else, another answer is it's all abuse.
As far as our training - we get training when we need it (usually). Often it can be picked up OJT, and is.
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