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A great idea...
...from the House Armed Services Committee version of the fiscal year 2011 Defense Authorization bill. Allowing officers "off-ramps" and "on-ramps" to their careers is a good way to both retain good officers and allow them to take time off to have kids, travel, or pursue an academic course:
ALTERNATIVE COMMISSIONED OFFICER CAREER TRACK PILOT PROGRAM
In an effort to create an officer corps that is better prepared to assume the responsibilities of waging war, peacekeeping, stabilization, and other critical missions carried out by our military, the Committee created in this year’s bill a pilot program to offer an alternative career track for commissioned officers. This new program will offer a broader range of experiences and opportunities and extend over a longer career, providing more time for officers to experience a greater variety of training and education.
I'd be curious to hear the
I'd be curious to hear the details on this one. Sounds like a good start...
this is an external solution
this is an external solution to an internal problem. most officers i know get out because they refuse to lie on reports, they know they will be marginalized, and won't reach their full potential. if you are the type that will sell your soul and fake maintenance and other readiness reports, you get promoted.. adding to the misery of the ethical officers that won't.
another problem is the lack of mentorship officers receive. once a strong officer is recognized, he's moved in to a primary staff position or command and worked to death. they may receive the lion's share of the bosses minuscule mentorship while many potentially great officers languish in other jobs, receiving zero mentorship because they are too far away from the bosses inner circle. to sum up, the officers that need the least mentorship get the most and the officers that need the most get the least. many of the inner circle start to feel micromanaged, get fed up and get out. the outer circle see their careers are going nowhere.. and get out.
the on-ramp/off-ramp idea won't work because it doesn't address the real reasons officers are getting out. i see this as another half ass attempt like the last personnel change that happened back in 2003 and was promptly scuttled when the retention and OPTEMPO reality kicked in. I was supposed to be released from my branch to be a FAO. that was the plan. eventually, FAO branch gave up and PERSCOM scuttled the program.
Ummm how about we give the
Ummm how about we give the NCO Corp some time to "ramp off" and spend times with their families? The Army is in danger of not having many experience senior enlisted after the last of the cold war warriors retires in the next 10 years. How many deployments will an enlisted soldier have in 2021 if they have been in the army since 2001? I am not just talking about combat arms but a lot of the support side to.
Seriously though I am curious about this.
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Might be a great idea,
Might be a great idea, depending on the details. Uh...what do they do for money while "off"?
I still think flushing the NG and Reserves of their "Old Breed" (beer, porn, Annual Training = "Summer Camp") Officers and NCO's and replacing them with our surfeit of experienced younger types - both from Active Duty and combat deployed NG types would work as well or better. Let the Old Breed guard Bridges, tunnels, Nuclear power plants.
There's also the problem of staying current if you've been off the trail. Getting back on is a learning curve...
Geez MAJ Scarlet, what units
Geez MAJ Scarlet, what units were you in? Most of my cohort left active service because of the OPTEMPO or family reasons (obviously tied to OPTEMPO). Lying on reports?? Yikes - never heard that as a reason.
I think a whole bunch of us would have stayed in if they had done this five years ago. Thanks for posting, Ex.
MS you bring up very good
MS you bring up very good points, however there isn't really an easy solution to it. I don't think that's a valid reason for saying this program won't work. As a junior officer, I'd sure like to be able to follow a career path that allows for higher education to aid in understanding the complex environment our military currently works in.
I wish GEN Franks had had a little more education before taking over his position as CENTCOM chief.
Just leave the military and
Just leave the military and go into the various companies offering "solutions" around D.C. Do 4 to 6 yrs in the military, get a clearance, then you're off the races in places like SAIC, CACI, BAE, etc. etc. Good money and easy as pie.
Just leave the military and
Just leave the military and go into the various companies offering "solutions" around D.C. Do 4 to 6 yrs in the military, get a clearance, then you're off to the races in places like SAIC, CACI, BAE, etc. etc. Good money and easy as pie.
AM, you're new censorship
AM, you're new censorship algorithm is so Gay. Among all the words we can't say on your blog, we can say things like pee-pee and gay and fudge packer. Do away with the censorship and make your blog fun again.
Or if you're in a high
Or if you're in a high density/non shortage branch. If you're one of the unlucky officers in a low density shortage branch, the only thing you off ramp into is...the next assignment that HRC hand picks for you.
What education - if by which
What education - if by which you mean the Academy - is going to teach you how to be a politician or statesman? Only careers in that field, hopefully following a good academic grounding. Yes they could teach you languages, finance, science...but the only preparation for a career in politics, diplomacy or war are those fields. And natural talent, experience, and proven ability.
I take it back, it's a baaddd idea. When you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. I did, twice.
Rage time (get your soft little hands out of my pocket!!)
How many Ivy Leaguer's signed the Declaration of Independence or were at the Constitutional Convention?
So what have all you brains in finance, banking, IR and the rest bought us but ruin? Oh and here's another chance to point out you're fabulously and pervasively corrupt (thanks!).
If the Officers are going to pick my pocket so as to enjoy sabbatical, F*&# that!! We've got enough of an academic gravy train going, and it costs what .....300-400% above inflation?
You academic types would be well advised to STFU and not draw attention to yourselves. If you missed it, the citizens are looking very hard at the books now. Their immediate problem is government and they are dealing with that...how long to follow the chain of corruption to it's roots, the Ivy League? Even dumb rednecks can pick up common denominators.
Enjoy November!!
Elf, I think that is the
Elf,
I think that is the best comment I've read here. I can see November from my house!
مايك بن مايك
I'm all for education (education provides context and you can't make good decisions without context).. however.. a higher education doesn't guarantee you will "get it" as Elf so eloquently put it. From my experience in the education systems, degree programs force you into a curricula that lack the ability to truly educate you. On top of that, you are more than likely going to be victimized by a professor if you "think outside of the box" and present solutions to problems that are beyond their comprehension (research the birth of Fedex if you need an example). I've learned more from personal reading (i spend at least $100-$300/month on books) than i learned in college (my latest two books "the character of nations" by angelo codevilla and "the flight of the intellectuals" by paul berman just arrived). In my Grad school (international relations with a concentration in national security), i'm constantly arguing with my professors about their conventional wisdom and lack of context of the issues we discuss.
The solutions are easier than you think. the problem is the military culture and it's resistance to change. we can offer all the external incentives that we can afford but you still have to return to your unit and suffer from the institutional problems that aren't being addressed. it seems that you are serving. get in a habit of asking first time soldiers if they are staying in. you'll learn a lot of what's wrong by doing that. i'll guarantee you it has nothing to do with higher education and everything to do with piss poor leadership. (see below)
Gunslinger,
I'm an artillery Major (Major Scarlet, duh). I know many people who's careers are top notch today because they fudged reports as a Battery Commander. In fact, one of them is a Battalion Commander now. There was much pressure on battery commanders to submit perfect or nearly perfect OR rates. the commanders that fudged, progressed. the ones that were honest were told "you aren't a team player". no.. i'm not shitting about that. I've been in good units with good leadership where if you made a mistake you wouldn't get tied to the whipping post. however, there are too many leaders in my branch that would rather flog you than accept a mistake. artillery may be different from other branches. also, i know i'm just a Major, but I've commanded a Battalion as a Major. The commander I replaced fudged his PT/over weight program and had the nerve to try and dime me out to my Brigade commander that I had over-weight people in my unit (he went to Bde Staff after command). The BDE commander was smart enough to know that I inherited that problem.
Major Scarlet: I recognize
Major Scarlet:
I recognize this is way off your main topic...But I was just curious about your FedEx reference. Not to b a "told-you-so" and/or nitpicker, but are you referring to the story that Fred Smith's paper conceptualizing FedEx got some subpar grade, or something similar? I think he's stated that story is false, but people just use it because they like examples of authority being wrong.
ADTS,
(possibly) being a whiny, told-you-so, nitpick
I concur in part with
I concur in part with Gulliver but would add that most Officer I knew that got out, including myself, were driven out by the prospect of spending over half of our careers in staff positions, dicking around with PowerPoint slides. No thanks.
Correction. Concur in part
Correction. Concur in part with Gunslinger.
If your regular officer
If your regular officer corps is busy doing graduate studies while at "work" and "off-ramping" for years between tours what is the difference between them and a reservist?
If more and more of a professional officers' career is spent at civilian schools and expanding his experience how much of the average officers' career will be spent doing things that are solely "military"?
The idea of off ramping is recognition that the pure military side of being an officer doesn't take nearly the time to acquire and maintain as many think which makes more reliance on reserves for ground forces a sensible course of action.
In line with reservist/NG
In line with reservist/NG thread - we need a smaller active force, and larger reserves. The numbers should almost be inverted from where they are now. If we get rid of a lot of the cold war active duty overhead there's numbers reduced.
There are many logistical trades and other skills that are supplemented or learned better when it's the core of your skills - your full time civilian job. Truck driving, fueling, mechanical skills, piloting aircraft, law enforcement...
Mind you we should increase the number of training days for RC/NG from 39 to 60. More full time staff could also knock down the administrative workload so that those precious training days aren't used for admin.
ADTS, i just googled it on
ADTS,
i just googled it on Snopes. i think conceptually my example still stands.. however it probably isn't a great one. i'll have to find a better one next time. thanks for pointing that out.
Major Scarlet: Hey, whatever
Major Scarlet:
Hey, whatever works. :=)
ADTS
@ Visitor on May 22, 2010 -
@ Visitor on May 22, 2010 - 3:04am
If your regular officer corps is busy doing graduate studies while at "work" and "off-ramping" for years between tours what is the difference between them and a reservist?
The reservist has the additional responsibilities of a civilian job.
Reference -@V 833, "The
Reference -@V 833,
"The reservist has the additional responsibilities of a civilian job."
I really can't think of a better civilian education. Try BS-ing through that. Further try fudging the civilian equivalent of readiness reports = FAIL/JAIL.
Taking some time off to raise a family. Yes, and that can't be done without a government subsidy of course.
Edward Luttwak wrote a book
Edward Luttwak wrote a book called The Pentagon and the Art of War and in it he discussed the problems the army had post WW 2 keeping enough experienced company grade officers stay in. The options came to "off-ramping"- go home and stay fit and read army books until we need you again (which was assumed to be soon) or to create make work jobs on the base. The later was chosen because it was felt that the tax payers wouldn't be keen on half or full pay captains. Ironically when WW 3 didn't happen it was forgotten that the jobs were make work and they soon became very important to fill resulting in the bloated officer corps we now have.
Off ramping is a very bad idea. Since the current number of officer slots would remain the same the total number of officers would increase and quality would go down- one because there would be more and secondly they would have even less field time than now. That's before you answer questions about where their income would come from or why would anyone still in the running for a star sign up. Would an "off-ramped" officer have to come back? Is the time off pensionable?
A possibly better idea might be to link post graduate education slots with assignment in a part time capacity to a reserve unit. I'm not keen on most full time grad training (I think it's one of the places Luttwak's extra officers have been hidden) but at least by having the student still involved in occasional field training it would be better value and the grad course could be full length programs rather than the shortened ones designed for serving officers to punch tickets.
What ever happened to the
What ever happened to the minute man concept......
Why take pay to protect family and country?
Taxpayer can provide training and education credits as support. The education benefits national security and payment comes from the canidate's employeer not uncle sam. Country ends up with a qualifed war fighter and a more talented work force.
Our concept of reward is a little messed up. We expect police to protect our families, yet no one carries one in their pocket. Businesses give bonuses to salespeople to sell things that their customers do not want or need. The citizenship expects our government to take care of us...... pensions, social security, universal health care.
See the pattern. Taxpayer spends a lot and ends up the wrong talent and the bill. Country comes up short.
We should be taking care of ourselves and neighbors cause it is the right thing to do. If our all neighbors did the same, the world would be a nicer place.
Before you create an alternative commissioned officer career track, you should find out the individual's motivation for wanting to stay in the job.
Almost forgot....... The
Almost forgot.......
The folks that saved the free world in WW2.....many of those guys did not even have a High School degree.
Not sure a highly educated person makes a good war fighter. Go to college and they make you think you are the "best and brightest". If you are the best and brightest, why would you want to end up to your butt in mud with a rifle in your hand following orders from a person more worried about his promotion rather than your life?
PS...Reality check. Most colleges these days get about half of their operating income from corporations and donations. A lot has to do with corporate recruitment. If you had money to give, would you give it to the college with the "best and brightest" or "the dumb and dumber" ? "Best and Brightest" is a marketing gimmick. Another example of our messed up reward system. Colleges these days are up to their gills in debt. Lot of pensions and mouths to feed. That is the reason why a four year degree is up to about $40-50K these days. That is just the tutition, books and lodging are extra. Tutition will sky rocket if the universities think that Uncle Sams is going to foot the bill for it's officers. Deep pockets pay well.
I have interviewed individuals for professional positions as a employee at a Fortune Five-hundred company. Would rather hire a marginal canidate that keeps trying rather than one that excells. You end up with an employee that does not mind getting their hands dirty, does not quit, does not have a "best and brightest" attitude, and thanks you for giving them a chance. They don't come on board and expect more pay cause they are the "best and brightest".
Post DADT. Don't forget all
Post DADT. Don't forget all the pet toy dogs, we'll have to accommodate in officer housing, as well as the barracks. And all the pet grooming, pet sitting establishments that we'll also have to have on base. And 5.11 will have to sell tighter shirts.
You might get what you're
You might get what you're hoping for.
DOD INSOURCING INITIATIVE:
Insourcing jobs within the Department of Defense is an important initiative to achieve cost savings and reduce our
reliance on private contractors. The Committee supports the Administration’s efforts to bring these critical jobs back within the Department to make sure our government has the capabilities and skills necessary to keep our military
running. However, the Committee is concerned about arbitrary goals being set for insourcing. The bill prohibits the
establishment of any arbitrary goals or targets to implement DOD’s insourcing initiative. It also requires reports from both DOD and GAO to examine the insourcing initiative.
What do you think the pilot program is ????
Women and Gays are the ones
Women and Gays are the ones in post-Grad studies now. We need to make our military, not just the Air Force, gayer. The only way we can invite the best and brightest, who are mostly gays and women, we need to make our military more gay tolerant than they already are. We need to have gay Tuesdays and Thursdays in all NCO clubs and play "it's raining men, hallelujah" all night long. Make our military gayer and they will cum.
@Elf, Just for the record,
@Elf,
Just for the record, twenty-one of the fifty-five delegates at the Constitutional Convention attended Ivy League universities (or in some cases, the predecessor institution, e.g. the College of New Jersey became Princeton, and the College of Philadelphia became UPenn.) Four more went to William and Mary, another taught at College of Philadelphia, Roger Sherman was the treasurer of Yale, John Dickinson of Delawre was awarded an honorary doctorate of laws from College of New Jersey/Princeton, and Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina was a graduate of Oxford.
Thank you Visitor, I did not
Thank you Visitor, I did not know that....
Let's remember Washington however was not highly educated, and probably the Greatest man alive of his time. Certainly the Greatest President and Founder - it wouldn't have happened without him.
Mind you I believe the term Ivy League dates from 1954, or so my best and brightest research assistant Dr Google tells me..he went to Stanford BTW.
Look I have no problem with the Ivy League. Really, just a few safety warnings to keep them away from (ABOVE ALL) Money and Finance, also Budgeting, Defense, Government, field intelligence work, sharp, dangerous or flammable objects. Also cooking over open flames. Probably should steer clear of Insurance as well. Oh and Law. Yes that too..
I'm sure in a controlled academic environment they're quite benign. The Pandemonium only begins when they are released into the real world. Rather like crossing bubonic plague with flu. I suggest a really great idea would be to keep them forever in an hermetically sealed academic environment with lifetime tenure - like the Supreme Court, until you croak - and pensions, free health care. Now that's an expense that would be an unbeatable bargain for the taxpayers, and I'll endorse it without reservation. Really, we can't be such a thoughtless and heartless nation to expose our best, brightest, most privileged to the rough and tumble of the real world?* How cruel. As our most precious reserve of Human Capital, they need to be protected.
*The world ain't ready for them either.
We can dovetail this "learn more about war at college" idea into this. We shall create a Harvard of Higher Military Graduate learning called Krasnovia, and there - part of the elite 177th Motorized Rifle Regiment - Officers who want to take a break to raise a family, grow flowers, write a sonnet, relax for awhile can be part of this unit for years on end. Moreover they can Lord their elite status over the rest of us rough unschooled backwoodsmen by forcing us to train at the fount of the Feng Shui Warrior academy and accept their bracing unbridled critiques, returning chastened properly by the experience (and making up their mind to leave and do some-F*%#ing thing else).
We'll all be happier this way. I'm behind it all the way, where's my checkbook?
Elf comments about a smaller
Elf comments about a smaller active and larger reserve are worth exploring. I think I've mentioned that I drank the Tom Barnett Sysadmin Koolaid a long time a go but I still see Tom's division of labor as a positive step. Keep the armor, keep the artillery, keep the fast movers and the heavy infantry in the Leviathan, use that to kick the shit out of those that fail to live up to a common standard ( North Korea I am looking at you sir). Then put the best of the rest into the sysadmin.
Use the Marine as fire support for the Sysadmin teams, cause if you shot at them marines are a great deterrence, them the civil affairs, light infantry, nation builder types can do what they do.
Spec ops do what spec ops do.
If that system had been in place then the US could have won the Iraq war and then gone on to a stellar success in winning the peace.
That's the basics of Toms Core/Gap Leviathan/Sysadmin slant.
Have a look.
http://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_barnett_draws_a_new_map_for_peace.html
I don't know why the demand
I don't know why the demand for officers would decrease in peacetime. During peacetime, the emphasis upon safety increases dramatically, which requires many more officers to supervise activities related to allocating and emplacing drip pans, chock blocks, road guards, signs warning us about woodpeckers/turtles. There also need to be lengthy briefs on various ecological frailties in the training area, what types of wildlife to not play with or get bitten by, primary, secondary and tertiary medical evacuation plans for such simple affairs as running a 203 TPT range, etc, etc.
Is an antiquated personnel
Is an antiquated personnel system from the Mid 20th century. George Marshall and Ike decided that given WW2 attrition rates for Officers we should start the war with a pool 3X of what it should be - if people were trucks, tanks or ammo - yes. Since they're not = FAIL. The Army Officer Corps is 15-19% of the Army (clue - you can't get a reliable percentage).
And yes as someone pointed out this led to makework jobs that have since become part of the Institution and that we think we have to have people to fill. Umm....no. And of course these makework jobs lead to more reporting requirements, more makework, a system of musical chairs leadership constantly rotating through leadership, Command and the actual real staff positions to take their "turn". One of the reasons the USMC has higher morale is their Officers are only 7% of the Corps. That's about as high as it should get.
And the last visitor left out that once the NCO Corps in the Army decided to "professionalize" we/they walked the same path the Officers walked. The Army NCO ranks are also bloated in the middle and the top, with plenty of senior people having never fired their weapons in anger. Making our lives even more dreary with their various piques and fancies (AR 670-1 bots, I mean you).
As far as Thomas Barnett and the Pentagons new map- ummm...we're broke. Learn to think inside that box. No $$, no war, no new map, no "sysadmin". Madness revealed by the use of that term BTW.
But what are we to do with
But what are we to do with our huge Gay officers cadre coming in? If the Mid-East and Muslim countries are into man love, ie Bacha Bazi, prison style, etc. shouldn't we be using our officers who can relate in this very arena? They can stay in the MidEast/Muslim countries and do what they do best.
@ Elf - "As far as Thomas
@ Elf - "As far as Thomas Barnett and the Pentagons new map- ummm...we're broke"
Ha blinding reality meets the unmovable optimism of Tom Barnett.
I still think there is a lot of good in the idea, and I still see the US shifting to that end, more and more nation building, PKO, for me its a natural progression. But yeah, money may be the issue right now!
@Gay obsessed
@Gay obsessed Trolvistor,
*Thailand. One night in Bangkok and you'll never need to stalk Ex again.
*Sri Lanka. AC Clarke had his own harem of boys, Pasha style. Tamil boys cheapee now...
Closer at home, I'm sure the Caribbean has special tourist packages. Don't know about Bacha Bazi. Try Greece! I'm sure they're gonna need hard money soon...
Typical of this blog, aside
Typical of this blog, aside from one comment complete ignorance of the NCO corp and the fact that they need to do more to keep mid term NCO's in
@928 re NCO Corps, Keep mid
@928 re NCO Corps,
Keep mid term NCO's in - yes by all means if they have proven combat experience.
No to up or out, or NCO schools trumping experience. No to up or out (madness - a retail sales force concept) for Officers or NCO's.
We need to promote based on valid leadership slots. Rewards - pay, bonus, benefits - can be structured differently than being primarily based on increasing compensation - which is justified to retain people - by promoting people until we become bloated in the middle and top, as has happened with the Officer Corps. Or eliminating good and experienced personnel because there's no slot for them to be promoted into - as I believe the USMC does.
Use the Marine as fire
Use the Marine as fire support for the Sysadmin teams, cause if you shot at them marines are a great deterrence, them the civil affairs, light infantry, nation builder types can do what they do. how to make a solar panel
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