Center for a New American Security

From AM's previous

From AM's previous blog....."I try to avoid commenting on matters related to Israel and the Palestinians, but this is a pretty good teaching opportunity relating to issues that concern this blog's readership."

So, AM what is the right way to stop a ship that is running a blockade................? (Learning opprotunity here)

Problem with all this COIN business is you're always playing nicy nicy to your enemy. Pretty soon, your enemy knows how you're going to react and will use that against you.

Example: If I am your enemy and I am short of operating funds all I have to do is send a bunch of my guys out to shoot at you and then you put them on the payroll........funding problem solved ! Duhhhhh.

Sam, I am a firm believer in

Sam,

I am a firm believer in high intensity ass-whippins', (watching those Israelis fast rope made me feel all tingly inside) but in this situation I agree with AM and MB that Israel has really created a much larger problem. Israel's solution to their Hamas problem is not through violence. Violence only legitimizes the claims for Hamas against the Israelis. Right now the IDF and Knesset are the best recruiting tools in the Hamas kit bag. Actions like these make people around the world perceive Israel as a "rouge state."

I think the another question raised by this incident is what type of war does Israel believe it is fighting? I think most of the world indirectly thinks of the Israelis as fighting a counter-insurgency in Gaza. From their actions in Gaza in 2008 and this weekend I think the Israelis clearly believe that they are fighting a war of national survival against an external enemy. In this light, I can understand why they would want to conduct a direct-action type operation. The problem they have is that the flotilla, while representing an "external threat" was not composed of declared hostile combatants, or if done so by the Israelis, the rest of the world certainly doesn't agree. It would be interesting to know what discussion the Israeli command had, if any, with their version of the SJA to confirm what type of "combatant" status the flotilla people had.

In terms of your comments on COIN, one of the "COIN paradoxes" is that sometimes you have to lose to win. In other words, ideological struggles are persistent in nature and are not zero-sum games. Direct action operations should only constitute a supporting effort in COIN and serve to slow the enemy's ability to conduct operations and protect the force of the counter-insurgent. No matter how many bad guys you kill, they will regenerate. One of the many problems with this move by Israel is that in the long term they will generate far more bad guys by conducting this type of operation than by allowing that flotilla to land.

[Have you noticed even you

[Have you noticed even you (I am assuming Andy is Andrew Exum) has lost patience with the CNAS server and double posts frequently now? Dude what are you using, the laptop they issued you for OBC? Hamsters on a hard drive? Little old ladies in tennis shoes transcribing? ]

Wallah!! UPGRADE

As far as winning to lose - people want Israel to lose so they can lose it all. I don't believe you are anti-Semitic BTW.
I think you haven't figured out the hard core of the Left is, however. The Arab and Muslim hatred is easy to understand.
The Left dazzles people with their compassion rhetoric. It's a con. The Hard Left wants Israel driven into the sea. Not that fond of America either. But you're going to have to experience some kind of catharsis I think to see who they are.

I would have guessed

I would have guessed Elf....mostly cause everyone knows the morphing ability of Elfing ways.

I'll fess to the search to knowledge. We still have not heard from the great and powerful COINer behind the curtain. Folks from TN must be bashful.

Andy lots of good thought. Think you are close...."what type of war does Israel believe it is fighting?" Seems to be the first step. Next step is to determine how commited you are and your foe. Then you mention...."that sometimes you have to lose to win". You're assuming that there were no hostiles on the ship, the Israelis could only find out by searching it or letting the cargo offboard (one other way as to be at the port in Turkey/operative on board...maybe they did that and they know more than we do). One thing you left out............you have to determine if you have any chance in hell in finally winning or will you die a death of a thousand cuts. Pride away and walk away ( AM is that a chapter in your COIN narrative...it should be).

Maybe that is what Israel did................Played to lose. Not sure the fast roping worked out the way they planned, they still have a blockade. They already went into Gaza and thrashed around, world did not like that....it is history now.

What is more useful. Keeping comfort/military supplies from your enemy or a popularity contest ?

Look a couple more steps into the game.....What tool does Israel have to affect the Gaza strip other than a blockade. Do they have a chance in hell to win this in the end or are they just keeping bombs from raining on their heads. If they walk away, they lose everything....no face to save.

Will see. It appears that Israel screwed the pooch, opinion can change. The assasinnation in Dubai has quieted so does the rage of a suicide bombing (suppose that is why they have to keep doing them, they are illegal, an outrage, totally un-COIN like....folks have tuned that out. Now it is just a bunch of rag heads doing their thing.)

The fast roping might just be another sentence in a rather long book.

@ Zak, I think that would be

@ Zak,

I think that would be "Elfin" :-)

Like the sentence/long book phrase.

Israel is lose/lose. Let's take one inch of the moral yardstick applied to them and apply it to their would be genocidal enemies. Enemies come up short.

I read a great article a few months ago that the Left's moral outrage against Israel began when they defeated Soviet client states in open battle in 67 and 73. Quite true. Just as it's true that the Soviet Union was one of their chief backers in 47, both at the UN and getting them arms through their Czech clients. That's become neatly transferred to us, along with the guilt of all things British save Ireland.

"Israeli officials are right

"Israeli officials are right to say the operation was justified and that the blood was on the hands of the pro-Hamas activists. Right, but irrelevant."

Talking points from the IDF information operations desk? Compare those to the talking points from the Free Gaza Movement:

www.freegaza.org

Israel has the same problem that apartheid South Africa did, and as recent documents make clear, Israel worked closely with South Africa on its nuclear program. This seems to verify the fact that Israel tested a nuclear weapon with South Africa in the Indian Ocean in 1979:

www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/nuke-test.htm

It's high time Israel was forced to acknowledge its WMD program... but as far as the Gaza issue, the only thing the Israeli leadership fears from the local Arabs is a Gandhi-style nonviolent resistant movement - they'd far rather face violent idiots and push nonviolent situations into violent ones.

The Palestinians have finally figured this out, to their credit - took them long enough. Nonviolent resistance is always more effective - let the Israelis be the butchers, you get better headlines and more international support that way.

Israel is trying to respin this by claiming that they were the peaceful ones who were attacked - not very believable, is it? Especially when Israel attacked in international waters and then tried to hold everyone incommunicado, while seizing all cameras, cellphones, etc. Who do they think they're fooling?

Regardless, it's never been clear to me why Israel is the only Middle Eastern country that gets smeared in the press for abusing its own citizens, denying them access to work and education, driving them off their own land, restricting access to water and medical care, and provoking violence at every step - for example, Saudi repression of southern Shiite groups has played a large role in the armed al-Houthi rebellion in northern Yemen, for example (a Saudi-Iranian proxy war?), but the issue is largely glossed over in the press. These are largely countries that don't even have a sham democracy - pure dictatorships run by 18th-century petty tyrants - but, on the other hand, at least they don't have undeclared nuclear weapons arsenals, do they?

As part of a Long War on

As part of a Long War on terrorism Israel has had a long haul, and that's what really upsets me, the sheer stupidity of the act itself.

As Gunboat points out passive resistance will always make you look better. Especially if your opposing force is fast roping Shayetet 13 operators. And we live in the you tube age, where a mobile, a laptop can have your point of view out there is the world in real time. People opinions are formed fast and hard, unless you have the tenacity to dig through the reams of words etc , then you pick you point of view based largely on what you see, and what we have seen is a bully beating down a smaller kid,. yes that smaller kid picked up a stick but can you blame them.

Now I still haven;'t figured out how I would have done this f=differently, but I certainly wouldn't have been locking up Aussie journos, or shooting at hippies from a helicopter.

The problem cannot be taken

The problem cannot be taken effortlessly. We need to begin a number of committed process to resolve the changes. Under other conditions, a large number of families are sure to die due to the side effects. Really sorry for what happened. As a good human being, we must realize that our action could bring some bad effect to other people and environment. From now on, we must do something right so this kind of incident won't happen in the future. Spa Covers

I am looking forward to see

I am looking forward to see her art gallery. I hope she will exhibit all of her art collections. And I wish she will held like an auction show for her art collections. I love to have some of them. I admire her work of art. I heard they will not showcase her the majority of the art collection. It is definitely disappointing. I hope she would be kind enough to reveal all of them to public someday. Lap Band Houston

look a couple more steps into

look a couple more steps into the game.....What tool does Israel have to affect the Gaza strip other than a blockade. Do they have a chance in hell to win this in the end or are they just keeping bombs from raining on their heads. If they walk away, they lose everything....no face to save.
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Limits military operations..

Limits military operations.. Not so bad :)