Abu Muqawama: Post
Abu Muqawama retains its autonomy and the views and beliefs expressed within the blog do not reflect those of CNAS. Abu Muqawama retains the right to delete comments that include words that incite violence; are predatory, hateful, or intended to intimidate or harass; or degrade people on the basis of gender, race, class, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. In summary, don't be a jerk.
Beyond Pakistan's political elites
Commentor Zathras rightly took me to task on a post about India and Pakistan's relationship.
Pakistan's long-term interest lies in the two countries settling their differences. But, as Zathras says, what's in the interests of the country isn't always in the interest of the people that run it.
"Suppose Pakistan's political elites continue to be driven by the inertia that encourages policies bad for the country but helpful to the maintenance of their domestic positions?"
This is a valid point to make in any country (ie. politicians and bankers, or politicians and defence firms). Pakistan has not fared well in the past 50 years. Some might argue that the political groupings felt they needed to cement their positions in order to implement their vision for the country's betterment. However, the end result is that rural landlords have succeeded in paying little tax and the military as made itself the country's strongest institution, while state services, the national economy and now public security have suffered dramatically.
I passionately believe that the way to remedy this is to build on Pakistan's often overlooked advantages and empower its people to become involved their country's future direction. I am just coming to the end of a one project I was working on to facilitate a discussion about governance, religion and identity based on Pakistan's own religious traditions (which I have written about before).
But the process that needs to take place is a discussion with the aim of building a new consensus where for 50 years there has only been one group trying to impose its vision on others. To that end, it's really good to see more initiatives that aim to work with and engage the public.
After the floods, I wrote about the activities of young Pakistanis who had decided that the responsibility for helping their country lay ultimately with them. For the afpak article, I spoke to Ali Abbas, the head of the Pakistan Youth Alliance. A couple of weeks ago, I had the chance to attend the launch of a new social movement that Ali, and other young Pakistanis, have started up.
Khudi was launched with the help of the UK's Quilliam Foundation, an anti-extremism think tank. The launch in Islamabad gathered together figures from Pakistan's media, the young activists themselves, Maajid Nawaz, director of Quilliam, as well as Noman Benotman, a former leader of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group and a former associate of Osama Bin Laden.
Fasi Zaka, a well known and fairly outspoken commentator, talked about the responsibility the media has to promote reasoned, constructive debate. Hamid Mir, a well known TV anchor, talked about the limitations placed on the media. As Noman Benotman was speaking, a vocal section of the crowd cheered nearly every sentence he spoke. But when he paused respectfully during the call to prayer, a voice from the back called, "Where is your secularism now?"
I have friends that complained about the content and style of the evening. "It's not Pakistani enough." Or, "Why are they preaching at us?" Or, "The speakers are saying different things."
I differ. It is Pakistani by the fact that Pakistanis are taking a leading role in it. Also, Pakistanis find it appealing enough to become Facebook fans (13,500 Facebook so far). Also, I would say that the difference of opinion is the point of an initiative like Khudi.
In 2007, Maajid Nawaz, addressed a hall in London and laid out his reasons for leaving behind his former life as a leading member of the non-violent extremist group Hizb ut Tahrir. The hall was full of ultra orthodox Muslims (salafis), people who were sympathetic to his old group, generally interested young professional Muslims and many non-Muslims. Maajid laid out his thoughts and many people disagreed, vocally, right there and then. But the point was that it was debate. In the last three years, the space for debate amongst young British Muslims has grown.
Pakistan, a country where 60 percent of the population is under 30, also needs open debate. If everyone agreed from the beginning, it wouldn't be needed. Instead, in Pakistan, because there has been little national debate - and no consensus - about the core foundational questions that underpin the state, there is little common ground from which to start the debate.
A national consensus is the basis of political stability. It lays out a broadly agreed idea of what the country is about, the duties of the rulers and the ruled as well as the roles of its various intertwined communities (economic, ethnic, religious etc.) This sort of common understanding allows for differences of opinion to occur without ripping a country to shreds or bringing it to a standstill. A national consensus is necessary to develop a sense of political participation and the sense that leaders are responsible to the people. If that can be achieved, the elites Zathras mentions have less leeway to secure their positions at the end of their country.
Even though Pakistanis have little common solid standpoints from which to begin the debate, Khudi makes the point that desire for change amongst the youth is a powerful enough place to start.
In the long-term the answers can't come from abroad. If we accept that bad governance, the exploitation of deeply held beliefs and fears for short-term ends are amongst the issues that have contributed to extremism, then initiatives like Khudi and Karvaan-e-Amn (which I was working on) that promote debate and engagement are going to ultimately br more useful than military aid.
From mid November onwards, I'll be moving on to another role involving communications in Pakistan. But I hope the long-awaited national dialogue amongst Pakistanis grows.
you forgot to respond to
you forgot to respond to fnord's comments.
Hillary wants to give you
Hillary wants to give you guys more of our billions. Do you think Pakistanis deserve it?
I understand FREE money is free money, but many us here are unemployed and struggling to pay our rent, yet we are still suppose to dole out billions to you people?
What for?
@norwegian vegan: check out
@norwegian vegan: check out Comment by Londonstani on October 24, 2010 - 2:52am at us-pak gap pt 2I'm for Pakistan helping
I'm for Pakistan helping Pakistan. The children are our future. I would have more respect for Pakistan if the Pakistanis declined the U.S. billions the Obama administration is about to give away.
Afro-Americans will never fully stand on their own as a people because of welfare. If Pakistan doesn't stand up, like India, it will forever be cheap labor for Arabs.
Londonstani: I am impressed.
Londonstani: I am impressed. If you are looking for siaspora pakistanis who have been working on lines of communication, you might want to check out norwegian politician Abid Raja and his approach to dialogue between factions within the diaspora as well as with the norewgian side.
Money? What money I have
Money? What money I have not appropriated any money. Pakistan, is that in my district? Maybe I can earmark that.
.
Does that get me votes?
.
Jesus, I looked at the letters my constiuents wrote to me. What a lousy job market where am I going find another employeer that will pay me a six figure salary to sit around doing the same thing every day. I got those payments to make on that vacation place I just purchased in the Hamptons. Boy was that guy desperate to sell, I love those motivated sellers. Never asked him what motivated him to sell so cheap, what do I care I got my dream home. Not too many people around that would let an empoyee make six figures and sit around doing nothing. Crap, I loose this job and I loose my Health Care. I don't want to have to divorce my wife on her heath bed so that she can have health care that would really suck. Didn't one of my supporters have that problem, that must have really hurt. Christ, I get so many letters they all start looking the same. I'll have to give my staff raises and pull in some favors. Maybe I can lobby, hear that pays well, not much effort in that.
.
Ohhhhhhh, panic mode....need votes.
.
I will tell them I will investigate the problem. Create a task force and hire a bunch of people to look into it. Always worked before. That will free me up on my budget investigation.........
.
Londonstani.......I will get back with you after the election, it is mid-terms you know and I am up for re-election. Those Repubilicans say I always have to justify my expenses. I never understand that, I always have money in my check book. Make a good salary. Got fantastic health care ......I just do understand why so many people do not like me anymore. Tell you what Londonstani, you have been a long term supporter of mine, you got me all those votes last election. How about you do it again, and I will make this Pakistan place top priority. Trust me.
.
What did I do wrong?
.
Next subject....Afghanistan....Oh ya, we investigated that one. Not in my district. Congressional rules do not allow me to comment. Need to get my staff to put that in my next form letter and reply to all those letters I get every day. Shit, I wish those people would leave me a lone. Can't they see I have all these investigations to do. Maybe I can outsource the the work load....Think tanks,,,,,ya,,,,Think Tanks.....Did any of those give me money for my election?
Londonstani, Please don't
Londonstani,
Please don't feel bad, I get the same thing out of my US Congressman and Senator. Always have for the past half century or so.
Funny, when they want a vote or money, they always know what to say and where to find me.
Dear Mr. Congressman: I am
Dear Mr. Congressman:
I am sorry I was so stupid not to know that Afghanistan was outside your district. You keep telling I am stupid, I must be. That Pakistan place must be really important, because my neighbor told me you gave them $9.5 Billion tax dollars. I know that your very busy with your investigations, that is why you can never give me a straight answer to the questions in my letters to you. Your replies are so nicely written, you must spend a lot of time hand crafting each one. Thank you so much for giving me that special attention.
If I can, please let me have one more moment of your time. I lost my job at the factory. My employer told me that he just could not afford to pay me anymore. Said something about a town call China. There must be a lot of happy people in China. What State is China in; I would like to move there some day. Since my job is going to China, the factory workers there must be really educated. I was happy to hear about my employer in the newspaper, they are making so much profit these days. Glad I was able to help them by losing my job to a more educated worker. I am going off in so many directions and wasting your valuable time, I will get to my problem. I got a foreclosure letter and my bank is kicking out of my home. Since you gave the nice Pakistan place $9.5 Billion dollars, I thought maybe you could give me some money. I have to vote for you in two weeks.
My neighbor told me about a program that you helped create that helps people like me with mortgage problems. Paperwork needs to be filled out to help to refinance the mortgage. Boy would that help be great. You must have been really busy with your investigations cause the program was started a long time ago and you are just not getting around to telling those bad bankers they don’t do their legal paperwork right. My neighbor said that you are a lawyer; you must have caught that bad foreclosure paperwork real quick. You are so smart. You told me the guy running against you is dumb. I only vote for smart people like you. My next-door neighbor is so smart; he is a supervisor at the factory. Sorry he is moving, does not like the neighborhood any more. I will miss him.
In closing, thank you for working so hard on Health Care. You spent so much time working on it, must have been really important. Last time I saw my Doctor he was really excited. He said that his services would be really in demand and will double his salary. Told be he was going to up-series his BMW and expand his 5,000 sq ft home. He is a really nice person; he must really make a lot of money. If I double my salary right now, I would still be making nothing. Is a BMW a car or a place? I don’t have a car, I ride the bus cause I cannot afford the gasoline or insurance anymore. My Doctor is smart like you. He bet he would retire in a nice place like China.
Will you help me out on my Health Care insurance payments like you did with my job and mortgage?
Sincerely,
Larry Lucky
I want to thank Londonstani
I want to thank Londonstani for his response to my comment of a couple of days ago, but mostly for his continued thoughtfulness and dedication to opening a window on aspects of Pakistani society that those of us interested in American policy in South Asia need to understand.
That American policy is the focal point of my concerns won't surprise anyone familiar with my occasional posts here and elsewhere; Pakistan's internal issues are mostly of interest for me to the extent they produce problems for us (like, for example, the war in Afghanistan). I am not without sympathy, though, for those Pakistanis seeking a better way forward for their country in the face of many difficulties. Other posts, on this thread and earlier ones, may serve as indications that a large and growing number of Americans are not prepared to act on any sympathy they might feel for the people of countries such as Pakistan. Ideally, the burdens of Pakistan's history could be shifted and lessened gradually with American support over a period of many years. We may not have that kind of time, which is why I asked the questions about American policy options at the end of my last post.
An aside to AM: the post on this thread at 9:49 PM is obvious commercial spam. It should be deleted.
Call Hernando de Soto, he'll
Call Hernando de Soto, he'll fix Pakistan right up (if he doesn't get kidnapped and/or beheaded first).
Zathras "Other posts, on
Zathras
"Other posts, on this thread and earlier ones, may serve as indications that a large and growing number of Americans are not prepared to act on any sympathy they might feel for the people of countries such as Pakistan. Ideally, the burdens of Pakistan's history could be shifted and lessened gradually with American support over a period of many years."
I laugh at the current Administration when it says, "We just did not sell are policy". Others say, "It is hard times and people say things they really do not mean". I get the feeling that you have never been in a position of need Zathras. Never had to deal with the survival emotions.
I have been in situations where you look into people's eyes and what you see is they would rather cut your throat for what is in your hand rather than discuss sympathy. That is the moment that people really say what they mean. All the nice things we say and do, all the lies that people make, all the sales pitches, all the learned behavior just distills down to one basic human emotion. I want that and it is usually a mob response.
The reality is US economy is not going to get better fast. The US deficit is outrageous. Current US policy is not going to make Government spending any better. People in the US are loosing their homes. There are no jobs for the lower and middle class. US is executing a war that it can not afford.
You are talking sympathy for Pakistan. That is like putting up a pup tent for someone in a hurricane.
I will give you my sympathy when you dial 911 and you get put on hold. Then I will laugh my ass off.
That is what life really is. I wish I had a sheltered one like yours.
Here is a test........Knife is at your throat. The money in your hand is for Pakistan. If you give up the money, it will save your life.
(here is a kinder one.......Bank is knocking at your door. The money in your hand is for Pakistan. If you give the banker the money your family has a home.)
What do you do Zathras......? I think that you will call 911 and ask Obama to hand out more money.......but your put on hold like the rest of America.
It is priority and management, not sympathy. That is what American people are asking for.
The people were loosing jobs, the economy was going to hell.
Obama spent 1.5 years on fucking Health Care that would not go into effect for 4-5 Goddamn years. Handed out unemployment extension to buy votes.
Opps. Think if I look in the dictionary for mismanagement.....guess who I would see?
Sympathy for Paksitan.....Go to see the devil.
While I thank the poster
While I thank the poster immediately upthread for his response, I'd urge him to consider whether speculating on the life and motivations of another poster he does not know -- whose real name, in fact, he does not know -- is really the best use of his time.
If it makes him feel any better, I am not only aware of the economic distress besetting many Americans and the country as a whole, but acutely conscious of its likely impact on American foreign policy. I hope this makes him feel better, because no one posting under a cybernym has ever succeeded in making me care what he thinks of me personally. He is welcome to keep trying.
Zathras, are you Gay? (Not
Zathras, are you Gay? (Not that anything's wrong with being Gay, but it would shed some light on this discussion).
I think I've earned the
I think I've earned the Honorific. And Zathras even I have had it. Bring them home, when our "leaders" made submission to Iman Iago Rauf over the GZ Victory Mosque the "near enemy" in the West knew they had us.
Their lives are being wasted now. It doesn't help that the enemy has a nearly safe sanctuary - drones be damned, we ARCLIGHT-ed the Hell out of Laos and Cambodia and they still got through - and that our troops are crippled by ROE, misplaced Progressive social experiments on Cavemen, and that our allies are all stabbing us and charging us for it.
The bottom line is the enemy we need fear is already in the West, or training in Pakistan, having traveled there on UK or US passports. Until we man up and face that, and act like soldiers not defense attorneys in our own countries we will continue to suffer outrage after outrage.
But wasting our best young men and women on a fools errand no longer pays off. Bring them home, and stop paying scumbags money we don't have.
Get.them.out.of.there.
Elf for President. See, we
Elf for President. See, we know for sure that Elf is not Gay--he may be the pitcher, but this is not something a catcher says, he is the giver, the inseminator.
I don't know if the
I don't know if the endorsement gets me the gay vote or the homophobe vote.
Think what Mr. 10% could do
Think what Mr. 10% could do with this opportunity...
Report: Afghan Mineral Deposits Could Completely Revolutionize Nation's System Of Corruption
"WASHINGTON—According to a new State Department report, Afghanistan's more than $900 billion worth of untapped iron, copper, lithium, and other minerals could transform the nation from a graft-laden backwater into a modern, 21st-century hub of corruption. "Afghanistan's crooked political system currently relies solely on the small-time bribes of opium peddlers, but these highly sought-after natural resources could usher in a bright new era of illegitimate government maneuvering," said M. Farhan Sajadi, associate professor of Central Asian Studies at Hofstra University. "Officials will soon be able to embezzle, extort, and receive under-the-table kickbacks from major international conglomerates on a scale that would have been unimaginable just a few years ago. This is a major leap forward for Afghan kleptocracy." Responding to concerns that the nation's future mining profits would enrich only a handful of elite powerbrokers in Kabul, President Hamid Karzai vowed that he would do everything in his power to fairly distribute the wealth to even the most distant members of his family."
From the incomparable Onion.
Yeah, and it's all going to
Yeah, and it's all going to China. Big WOW.
If Elf is the Insemenator,
If Elf is the Insemenator, who's the Insemenatee? If he's the one doing the insemenating, wouldn't that still technically be gay, since there is penetration involved?
I hope this makes him feel
I hope this makes him feel better, because no one posting under a cybernym has ever succeeded in making me care what he thinks of me personally. He is welcome to keep trying.
Thank you for the reply......Zathras.
You just drove my point home. It was not about you.....it is about the readership.
It is COIN,,,,,rememeber....
miu miu bags waterproof,
miu miu bags waterproof, refractory legend, the true extent difficult to pursue, but it does not need leather or other ordinary leather, but USES a Canvas painting, called the Canvas with a layer of material, miu miu handbags plus waterproof PVC, did make it's purse, not easy to wear griselda. miu miu shoes besides "durable" besides, have 150 years history of Beauty Miu Miu Dress , initially specializing in royal and noble market, cheap Miu Miu Purses is undeniable makes the brand stand reasons.
miu miu bags waterproof,
miu miu bags waterproof, refractory legend, the true extent difficult to pursue, but it does not need leather or other ordinary leather, but USES a Canvas painting, called the Canvas with a layer of material, miu miu handbags plus waterproof PVC, did make it's purse, not easy to wear griselda. miu miu shoes besides "durable" besides, have 150 years history of Beauty Miu Miu Dress , initially specializing in royal and noble market, cheap Miu Miu Purses is undeniable makes the brand stand reasons.
Add your comment