Abu Muqawama: Post
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If a U.S. president could speak honestly about Libya...
Listening to U.S. journalists demand to know what the Obama Administration is doing about Libya is growing tiresome.
So much so that it was refreshing to hear the NATO secretary-general announce today that he "cannot consider the situation in Libya a direct threat to NATO or NATO allies."(Translation: "Stop bugging me about what NATO is going to do about Libya. NATO might not do anything about Libya, and that's okay.")
If a U.S. president could speak honestly about Libya, he would say something like this:
"Look, I have been alternately horrified by the behavior of the Libyan regime over the past few days and inspired by the courage of the Libyan people. But if you're asking me what we the United States is going to do about the situation, the answer is very little. Most Libyans reject the idea of external intervention by western powers, and we're just fine with that since we have few interests in Libya. You can't expect the United States to take an active role in responding to every humanitarian crisis or regional conflict worldwide unless you take a ridiculously broad conception of our interests, and Americans are increasingly unwilling to fund a military and aid program that could respond to each and every flare-up around the world. You cannot, in other words, have a steak-and-lobster foreign policy on a budget more suitable for McDonalds. But if I'm wrong and you guys want to cut social security and Medicaid to increase funding for USAID, the Department of Defense and the State Department, let me know. As for the rising price of oil? Look, folks, it's a global market. I can ask our Saudi friends to increase their output, but honestly, we Americans enjoy relatively cheap gasoline since we hardly tax the stuff at all compared with our industrial partners and competitors. I know that comes as little solace to a suburban mom dealing with national infrastructure built around the internal combustion engine, but that's not going to change anytime soon, and I can hardly tax Americans less, so we're stuck. You're just going to have to adjust your consumption as best as possible and save elsewhere."
Disagree with assertion that
Disagree with assertion that "we have few interests in Libya." The U.S. has a long history of direct and frequent involvement in Libya. Most recently, the Bush administration's (legitimately successful) years-long struggle for detente and our nuclear counterproliferation efforts, which were a major focus of our nuclear policy under Bush and Obama. The U.S. has "few interests in Libya" in 2011 the same way it had "few interests" in Iraq in 1991 ... or 2001.
Activities are not the same
Activities are not the same thing as interests, though. And our interests in the Persian Gulf dwarf our interests in North Africa by orders of magnitude.
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/re...
Holy shit. I think that is
Holy shit. I think that is the best "what the president's candid response would sound like" I've ever heard.
When the Continental Nations
When the Continental Nations have once got to the bottom of their Augean Stable, and begun to have real enterprises based on the eternal facts again, our Foreign Office may again have extensive concerns with them. And at all times, and even now, there will remain the question to be sincerely put and wisely answered, What essential concern has the British Nation with them and their enterprises? Any concern at all, except that of handsomely keeping apart from them? If so, what are the methods of best managing it?
At present, as was said, while Red Republic but clashes with foul Bureaucracy; and Nations, sunk in blind ignavia, demand a universal-suffrage Parliament to heal their wretchedness; and wild Anarchy and Phallus-Worship struggle with Sham-Kingship and extinct or galvanized Catholicism; and in the Cave of the Winds all manner of rotten waifs and wrecks are hurled against each other,--our English interest in the controversy, however huge said controversy grow, is quite trifling; we have only in a handsome manner to say to it: "Tumble and rage along, ye rotten waifs and wrecks; clash and collide as seems fittest to you; and smite each other into annihilation at your own good pleasure. In that huge conflict, dismal but unavoidable, we, thanks to our heroic ancestors, having got so far ahead of you, have now no interest at all. Our decided notion is, the dead ought to bury their dead in such a case: and so we have the honor to be, with distinguished consideration, your entirely devoted,--FLIMNAP, SEC. FOREIGN DEPARTMENT."
I really think Flimnap, till truer times come, ought to treat much of his work in this way: cautious to give offence to his neighbors; resolute not to concern himself in any of their self-annihilating operations whatsoever.
That's dead on. You could
That's dead on.
You could then add for Afghanistan "And we're bringing everyone home by 2014 (except for some "advisors" channeling Bing West on Colbert) because A) We're broke and B) I want to get reelected."
I think that's true to the
I think that's true to the extent that we have active economic relationships on the peninsula that dwarf whatever we have in Libya, if we have any. But that's just one kind of interest. The prevention of future security threats from Libya is an interest, and it's one where we've dedicated a tremendous amount of energy for thirty years now. We love to park the 6th Fleet in the Gulf of Sidra, which would seem to suggest that Libya is far from irrelevant.
Praise,,,,{crowd cheering in
Praise,,,,{crowd cheering in backround.....I wish we could , I wish we could, if only it could be that way}
Except for one thing......We should be able to cut more taxes ! For the size of government, you can not tell me that there is not waste.
...............Everyone talks about SS cutting, but you never hear of Federal Benefits. They are just a fat as any State Pension !. Look, it is not that I want to beat up Wisconsin or any other State Pension. Our nation is more and more bimodal. People that have been off-shored and people that will never be off-shored.
People can not afford their government anymore.
Either bring home the jobs and every one rides....or.....cut the budgets and everyone walks.
The US has no interests in
The US has no interests in curbing the biggest spoiler in Africa, using its role as the 18th largest producer of sweet oil and 4th largest provider to the EU which is most dependent on diesel to fund its mischief.
Check.
Well, okay Pococurante, now
Well, okay Pococurante, now how do those interests you just articulated square against interests elsewhere, other spending priorities, and available resources?
Only a fool confuses candor
Only a fool confuses candor with politics...
That said, this made me laugh and laugh:
"You cannot, in other words, have a steak-and-lobster foreign policy on a budget more suitable for McDonalds."
To Mr Fisher... First, your
To Mr Fisher...
First, your coverage of Egypt was great. However, I'm with Sayed Muqawama on this one. The 5th Fleet's purpose is ensure security of our vital national interests in the Med. Its other purpose is give sailors a better homeport than Norfolk and let officers enjoy the weather in Europe. Freedom of Navigation operations ensure the free flow of goods in important waterways. That is a polite way of saying that our sailors messing with the Great Leader Moammar by hanging out in places he calls his territorial waters reminds him not to mess with merchant ships. Its also more fun than steaming in circles between port visits to Rota and Haifa.
"Prevention of future security threats" can be almost anything to anyone. Its Libya, dude. They stopped being a threat about the same time Dana Carvey left SNL.
More interesting question to
More interesting question to ponder, perhaps:
"Walk on by" policy very hard to stomach, for anyone with a moral conscience.
Today, however, do fewer people look to America to be "World's Policeman" than just a decade ago, say?
Amicus: I think most people
Amicus: I think most people see the US as the worlds policeman still.. But its the LAPD, not John Wayne that comes to mind.
From a different point of
From a different point of view.....
I wonder of the Oil Sheik cares what is on my plate for dinner?
Rather than peg the price of Oil to the US Dollar. Set Oil prices to the cost of a bushel of corn/soybeans.
Here is the problem........
Farmers use fertilizer which is produced from hydrocarbon products which are linked to energy prices.
Farmers use diesel, enough said.
Farmers operational cost are not decreasing. Their taxes increase each year because the local government has high expenses linked to Oil. Land prices are increasing which is linked to inflation that is linked to the cost of Oil. The cost of farm equipment is not decreasing, it is linked to Oil prices.
You want the farmer to plow all day for free? The American family farmer is getting put out of business. The only guys making it are the big corporate operations. Break even price of corn is just north of $4/bushel. In a grain operation you have to have at least 1,000 acres to play.
You want food prices to drop...........Drop the cost of Oil............It starts at home.
Hungry people are not the only ones bitching about prices.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CLINTON_BIOFUELS?SITE=AP&SECTI...
The former president told farmers and Agriculture Department employees on Thursday that while producing biofuels is important for reducing America's dependence on foreign oil, farmers should also look beyond domestic production and consider the needs of developing countries.
"I think the best thing to say is we have to become energy independent, but we don't want to do it at the cost of food riots," Clinton said.
Well except ole' Blow Job Billy...........We pay him $400,000/yr Health Care, and Secret Service for the rest of his life to get up on his soap to tell us how wrong and backward we are. Like his life wasn't a train wreck.
Even if we take the most
Even if we take the most realpolitik possible approach to Libya, it's hard to find an end to the second-order risks to U.S. interests if the situation there continues to worsen. Libya is bordered by two nations -- Tunisia and Egypt -- undergoing incredibly fragile political transitions. Many transitional democracies fail and revert to autocracy. Chaos on the Libyan border isn't likely to be the deciding factor, but it could certainly add instability. Libya doesn't supply so much oil to the U.S., but it supplies a tremendous amount of energy to Europe, especially Italy. If there's anything approaching the fragility of North African politics, its the EU economies, many of which are at a make-or-break moment in recovering from their ongoing debt crises. This is especially true in Italy. As we've seen from the past year and a half, debt crisis in the EU matters a great deal to the struggling U.S. recovery. If the Italian economy plunges in response to a loss of Libyan energy, that will risk bringing down the rest of the EU, especially bailout-happy Germany and France, which could mean a great deal for the U.S. I understand that we don't have a lot of direct links to the well-being of Libya, but even the most hardnose, self-interested look at this should uncover no shortage of indirect but severe risks for the U.S. if Libya disintegrates further. I get the point you're making here, but I think it overlooks some of the very real economic concerns.
How does US intervention
How does US intervention prevent Libya from disintegrating further?
I think the US might be
I think the US might be wasting a great chance. Exactly because Lybians didn't have much dealing with the US so far (the regime wasn't propped up by them, unlike e.g. Egypt), a US helping the Lybian demonstrators now by installing a no fly zone (+maybe making some low overflights over wavering army units) might gain them a huge amount of good will.
Fnord, Then let the Euro's
Fnord,
Then let the Euro's and the Scandi's show us the way. LAPD would be a distinct step up for Libya, or indeed most of the world. We (the USA) need to pull back from the world.....and the Carlyle comment is clearly Moldbug. Rock on!!
BTW for those of you who don't know yet, the USA has one of the worlds largest supplies of oil, the largest deposits of coal, and quite possibly the world's largest reserve of natural gas and shale oil.
F*ck the ME and Europe too.
"F*ck the ME and Europe
Indeed. We're the ones getting the shaft from the current arrangements. Fuck'em.
I agree with the original
I agree with the original post, but would remind everyone that Tripoli is the first place we attacked after we won the Revolution. That's why the Marine song says .."to the shores of Tripoli." Our shipping was being harassed by pirates centered there.
Qaddafi is *already* using
Qaddafi is *already* using our "invasion" of Libya to justify his killing. If we stay out, folk see just the ravings of that madman. If we go in, it's "hey, maybe he was telling the truth". We don't have the soldiers or cash to spare. I hope we stay out of their problems. Oil or no, if we can't afford to rebuild broken US infrastructure, we in no way can afford to break other folk's bridges.
I'm confused (but then, i'm
I'm confused (but then, i'm just canadian); when you say that "You cannot (...) have a steak-and-lobster foreign policy on a budget more suitable for McDonalds", are you talking about the military US budget? The 663,255,000,000 billions (2009) budget? The budget that DWARFS the world's defense budget?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
The Libyan rebels cannot
The Libyan rebels cannot expect UN, NATO or any other international assistance beyond some targeted economic sanctions against Qaddafi. Their best bet is to keep encouraging military defections, arm able-bodied rebels, organize an offensive and march on Tripoli. There's no time for celebrations in the liberated towns and cities. If the rebels lose, the Qaddafists will destroy them. It's literally victory or death.
"If a U.S. president could
"If a U.S. president could speak honestly about Libya..." Egypt under Mubarak, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia under Ben Ali, Iraq under Saddam before he pissed us off, Iran under the Shah etc...
He's say "Sorry but we care about stability, oil and Israel. The rest doesn't matter much. If we cared about democracy we'd do more to encourage it."
Cool! That's a clever way of
Cool! That's a clever way of loonikg at it!
Youve got it in one.
Youve got it in one. Couldnt have put it betetr.
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I have been blogging since
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our English interest in the
our English interest in the controversy, however huge said controversy grow, is quite trifling; we have only in a handsome manner to say to it: "Tumble and rage along, ye rotten waifs and wrecks; clash and collide as seems fittest to you; and smite each other into annihilation at your own good pleasure. In that huge conflict, dismal but unavoidable, we, thanks to our heroic ancestors, having got so far ahead of you, have now no interest at all. Our decided notion is, the dead ought to bury their dead in such a case: and so we have the honor to be, with distinguished consideration, your entirely N10-004 dumps | 642-617 dumps | EX0-101 dumps | E20-001 dumps | 156-215.71 dumps | 642-447 dumps | 642-982 dumps | 000-979 dumps | 642-637 dumps | 646-364 dumps | Website
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