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The U.S. Response to the Egyptian Revolution(s)
From Anouar Abdel-Malek's Egypt: Military Society:
The United States ambassador in Cairo, Jefferson Caffery, enjoyed the most cordial relations with the military group; his subordinates, especially the assistant naval attaché, David Evans, and his counselor, Colonel Lakeland, later active in Iraq, were of the same view. On September 3, 1952, Secretary of State Dean Acheson promised Egypt “the active friendship of the United States.” Fulbright scholarships multiplied. The various credits rose from $6 million to $40 million between 1952 and 1954. Within the framework of the land reform that the State Department had constantly advocated, a so-called Egyptian-American Rural Improvement Service was set up with Egyptian capital of £E5,450,000 and American capital of £E3,469,000, in order to reclaim and redistribute a model area of 37,000 feddans.
From the Washington Post:
Clinton arrived in Cairo with a package of financial aid, parts of which had been previously announced. She pledged to secure quick congressional passage of a $60 million U.S.-Egypt Enterprise Fund, a program backed by Democratic and Republican lawmakers to stimulate investment and provide Egyptian businesses with access to low-cost loans.
The new aid would augment a previous pledge by the Obama administration of $90 million in near-term economic assistance. as well as $80 million in insurance backing for letters of credit issued by Egyptian banks.
Clinton also said that up to $2 billion in financial aid will be made available to Egypt and other countries in the Middle East and North Africa by the Overseas Private Investment Corporation to fund small- and medium-size businesses and stimulate job growth.
I am currently looking at ways in which U.S. policy makers can support democracy in Egypt and have found it interesting to look at the similarities between the ways in which the U.S. government responded to the coup of 1952 and has thus far responded to the events of 2011.
I am still of the opinion that one of the better ways the United States can support Egypt going forward is to take an active interest in the reconstitution of Egypt's internal security services. A responsible police force in Egypt would be welcomed, I suspect, by both the people of Egypt and the Egyptian military.
Egypt's internal security
Egypt's internal security services took the form they did for a reason. That reason still exists, as far as I can tell.
News reports, and the army's conduct during most of the period of protests in Cairo this past winter, indicates the distaste felt by some elements of the Egyptian military for the tactics employed by Egyptian police and intelligence units. Well and good, as far as that goes -- which begs the question, how far does it go?
I mean that the Egyptian security state was founded on the assumption that dissent either was, or could be, treason. The services it employed to deal with dissenters -- religious, political, whatever -- treated Egyptians in their custody accordingly. My understanding is that they also have a significant corruption problem, which is what happens when there is no check on a policeman's power. Perhaps, now that Mubarak is gone, some of the gratuitous mistreatment of people arrested for various offenses will go away and some of the nastiest security officials will be dismissed. Again, well and good. But if the foundation of the state is still to be order without law, it will still need internal security services that look and act more like they did when Mubarak was around than they do in, say, Europe or America.
I'm not clear whether AM tracks the plain implication of this, or whether he believes that the issue is merely one of policemen and intelligence officials who haven't received the proper training. It looks to me as if American interest needs to be directed at more fundamental issues than that to have any chance of supporting a more liberal political climate (and a more viable business climate) in Egypt.
> A responsible police force
> A responsible police force in Egypt would be welcomed, I suspect, by both the people of Egypt and the Egyptian military.
Responsible to whom? EU Police Advisory Teams? Go talk to Bosnians about how well that works out. To whatever petty tyrant emerges from the revolution? How's that an improvement on what the Egyptians already had?
Abu M: I don't know if your
Abu M:
I don't know if your comparison between the coup of 1952 and the regime change of 2011 might be the most profitable way to gain purchase on how US aid can influence events in Egypt. It's an interesting and imaginative comparison, to be sure, and worthy of a paper (or two, or three, or perhaps even a book someday). Still, I would consider looking at some more recent examples of regime change where autocrats have been forced out of power. What did the US do after Marcos and Suharto lost power? Also, I can understand arguments that a police force is something upon which to focus, but I wonder to what extent it should be the focal point of US aid. What about less "force-oriented" forms of aid? You might want to check out the wonderfully-titled Huntington and Betts article (in IS), "Dead Dictators and Rioting Mobs." It doesn't necessarily bear directly on your point, but it still might be useful to you.
Best
ADTS
Responded to the coup of
Responded to the coup of 1952? Responded to the coup of 1952? Au contraire, mon frere. Surely you mean, sponsored the coup of 1952.
I mean, surely you didn't mean to talk out of both sides of your mouth, like a snake. Jesus, even Wikipedia knows it, for once:
During the winter of 1951–1952 nationalist police officers backed by the United States and the Soviet Union began protecting and promoting [fedayeen] [the Egyptian resistance] attacks on British authorities in Cairo, Alexandria, and the Suez Canal.
and
Both the United States of America and the Soviet Union promoted the view that the Egyptian monarchy was both corrupt and a pro-British colonial satrapy, its lavish lifestyle in sharp contrast to that of the Free Officers, who lived in poverty. The propaganda of the two Super-powers completed the image of the Egyptian government as a corrupt puppet of the British.
The Central Intelligence Agency and the KGB through their agents in Egypt promoted the feeling of corruption on the part of several Egyptian institutions such as the police, the palace and even the political parties, and in turn helped coordinate their anti-British and reformist sympathies with the Free Officers Movement.
The USG: spreading violence and instability in North Africa, for your benefit and that of humanity, for over 50 years! I have no joke - I just like saying "the Central Intelligence Agency and the KGB." Great tastes that taste great together.
I am still of the opinion
I am still of the opinion that one of the better ways the United States can support Egypt going forward is to take an active interest in the reconstitution of Egypt's internal security services.
An Egypt policed by 21st-century American human-rights standards and practices is an Egyptian Somalia. Or at least, an Egyptian Detroit. Or at least, an Egyptian Mexico.
America has applied the same standards to the same kinds of populations, and gotten the same results, tens if not hundreds of times. Not that it really harms real American interests in the least to see Egypt reduced to universal Hobbesian mayhem. But I see a lot of people pretending to be concerned about Egyptian interests.
Are they? Here is a description of what American human-rights activists have done for ordinary Egyptians (just this time - not counting 1952!). I have not corrected the spelling:
But for many Egyptians, the regime WAS Hosni and Gamal. Now that he has gone, you voted on a referendum, you now have term limits and you will have free parliamentary and presidential elections by the end of the year…. for many Egyptians that was a “regime change.” Many look around and see their livelihoods destroyed, rampant crime and are shocked that they can’t even send their kids to school because some (self apppointed) students think they have the right to disrupt campus life and block other students and teachers from going to class… While many might have stood with you on Feb 11, they now question what all the fuss is about – you did, after all, get the “democracry” you were callling for – and they are becoming increasingly angry. And your ever beligerent shouting matches aren’t winning you any favors….
"Livelihoods destroyed" and "rampant crime." That's the achievement of your "Arab Spring" so far. As far as helping out Egyptians, the international community is pretty deep in the red, isn't it? When is that account going to go black again? Really? And what color is that balance sheet from 1952, anyway?
Well, other than the fact
Well, other than the fact that the US is doing today precisely what it did in 1952, which is to try to influence an outcome favorable to US interests, it's interesting to note US elites today haven't really accounted much for inflation.
then,
The various credits rose from $6 million to $40 million between 1952 and 1954.
now,
She pledged to secure quick congressional passage of a $60 million U.S.-Egypt Enterprise Fund
I'm sure they're whispering what cheap bastards we've become. lol
Elf, I would like to see the
Elf,
I would like to see the US be even cheaper.
Egypt belongs to the Egyptians, it is really up to them to determine their future.
It is none of my business as a US citizen to tell Egypt how to run their country. Seems pretty arrogant of the US to go around telling people how wrong they are when the US can not get it right at home.
It is time to take a break and take care of America.
Washington seems bent on building the American Empire. It did not work for the British, not sure why the US could do any better. It is one thing to have good relations with a county, it is clearly another to purchase those good relations. US spreads a lot of wealth both directly and indirectly (meaning you put an embassy or military base somewhere, it brings revenue to the area. Same for trade agreements.)
It is illegal for a government employee to take a bribe, but that is they way we run our foreign policy. Grease.
Personally, I think the US has lost its values. It is only about the money anymore.
You can be so much of your cause and be totally blind. Hillary can spread her ideology in the US. I am sure a lot of US women would like to improve themselves in the US. Human Rights abuses, if you listen to the far left, abound in the US. Lots people that need saving right here in the good ole' USofA.
I just love it when Hillary tells us how fucked up and backward we are, be happy to listen to more of it if she would stop giving our money away.
Be happy to donate the soap box.
AM, when and if the Muslim
AM, when and if the Muslim Brotherhood wins the fall (?) elections in Egypt, are you going to keep fuggin the Democracy in MENA chicken, or admit it was a pipe dream? It will be interesting to see if the Army goes Algerian on their azzes when that happens. Bush/McHitler got burnt on this score in Gaza (HAMAS) and Lebanon (Hizbollah). For that matter the world got burnt when a plurality of Germans elected Hitler in 1933. Democracy and education are Progressive panaceas, the diseases that they don't cure continue to run rampant.
What will the Progressives say when and if relatively honest elections are held and the MB sweeps? Will they admit that the people got what they really wanted, and admit what the implications of that are?
"On September 3, 1952,
"On September 3, 1952, Secretary of State Dean Acheson promised Egypt “the active friendship of the United States.” Fulbright scholarships multiplied. The various credits rose from $6 million to $40 million between 1952 and 1954."
And what did we get for our money?
25+ years of hatred, 25+ years of Egypt in the Soviet camp.
Yaaaay, active friendship!
> "Livelihoods destroyed" and
> "Livelihoods destroyed" and "rampant crime." That's the achievement of your "Arab Spring" so far. As far as helping out Egyptians, the international community is pretty deep in the red, isn't it? When is that account going to go black again? Really? And what color is that balance sheet from 1952, anyway?
Hey, we haven't dropped any bombs on them yet, that is an achievement of sorts.
Yes, by all means, Let us
Yes, by all means, Let us throw away even more money.
http://www.cpj.org/2011/04/substantial-setback-for-press-freedom-in-egyp...
1. 'Party of Freedom and
1. 'Party of Freedom and Justice' is already militating against alcohol for tourists and...
2. ...pushing for Egyptian military in the Sinai.
3. See more good things happening every day.
4. The local agency is called Homeland Security because Mr. Bush's handlers couldn't get their mouths around the implications of the more honest term: "internal security."
5. In my experiences with internal security, at home and abroad, have found very little upside for the common folk.
6. Expect internal security to be the tool of whoever has firmest grasp of the reins.
7. Doubt the folks who have facilitated all of this by parading in Tarir Square are going to be much pleased with how things turn out.
V/R JWest
lol. The US is going to have
lol.
The US is going to have about as much influence on "egyptian police" as the US has on the mutawa'ah in KSA.
In KSA the 800 pound gorilla is oil, but in Egypt the 800 pound gorilla is Israel.
wallah, Exum, when are you
wallah, Exum, when are you going to graduate from this gladhanding motivational campire talk and get real about what is EMPIRICALLY happening in MENA?
WEC Bush declared war on al-Islam.
America lost. All that remains is the division of spoils.
Perhaps your Mother can explain this to you more elegantly, but the short version is that Apolloyon just drank America's milkshake.
Its too late for this.
Three-quarters of a million muslim civilians died in Iraq. There are 4.5 million muslim orphans.
The Iraqis are not going to ask us back.
There are more Taliban everyday. And they will be part of w/e government the US leaves behind.
What is the mission again?
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