Abu Muqawama: Post
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Osama
Some of this blog's readers have probably been checking to see if I had any reaction to last night's news, and I apologize for not writing anything until now. I received the news about the death of Osama bin Laden via a text from my cousin Jon, on terminal leave from the Marine Corps but here in Washington, and ten minutes later we were together in the bar -- in plenty of time to watch the president's announcement. Before long, we were joined by several other veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan, and folks at the bar were buying us all drinks. (My cousin Jordan, who lives in Fort Worth but for whom Jon and I might as well be brothers, even tracked us down and called the bartender, remotely ordering us two shots of Maker's Mark.)
We went around, all of the veterans, each of us naming friends we had lost. I offered up Joel Cahill's name, and then that of Joe Fenty. I thought of the wives and young daughters those two men left behind, and I thought of so many more men and women who I never got the chance to know but who have given their lives since 2001.
I had told myself for years that the death of Osama bin Laden would not mean anything. Decapitation campaigns against sophisticated, mature terrorist networks, I knew, rarely yield strategic effects. But standing in that Washington bar, I was overcome with emotion.
This is a tremendous moment for the United States, and everyone from the president on down deserves the highest praise.
Nice post, well said. I knew
Nice post, well said.
I knew Joe Fenty, good man to be sure.
It is hard to know how this will play out in the months ahead., especially with regard to American policy and strategy in Afghanistan.
My sense though is that this is different from when the loser Zarqawi was killed in 06, or when Hussein was captured in late 03.
gian
Well, Andrew, you and others
Well, Andrew, you and others haven't thought this through. You can't let emotion get in the way of thinking strategically.
One thing I haven't heard yet from all the talking heads is how this operation and the at sea burial actually benefits AQ and Islamic radicals by making OBL a kind of super martyr. Especially the mysterious burial at sea (assuming that actually occurred): now no one can produce the corpse. All the proof of his death now depends upon believing the US Government's claims that in fact he is dead. In this case, a bloody corpse is worth a thousand pictures of a bloody corpse.
So, is OBL truly dead and buried? See where I'm going with this? It would have been much better to have captured the guy and put him on display as a common criminal, or at least put his corpse on display as proof of his demise. I can see the AQ propaganda machine spinning the mystery of his death and burial as Allah's work. After all, the goal of the fundamentalists is martyrdom and OBL has achieved that holy status. I don't see how this event damages AQ at all.
Doing it this way is a huge strategic mistake vis the so-called Global War on Terror. It certainly doesn't change the strategic situation one iota.
RH
So Abu what's your take on
So Abu what's your take on the ISI hiding bin Laden? Does your USG contemplate regime change in Pakistan as payback for consorting with the enemy? Can they at least pay us back our billions in military support for doing jackshit?
FWIW, my feeling is this changes nothing. I do wish, though, that it would enable us to declare victory in Afghanistan and cut and run -- but of course, we're not there to punish our enemies any more, are we? Punishing barbarians is so 2002. We're there to uplift our little brown brothers. And sisters, don't forget the women! And girls!
It was good to have shared a
It was good to have shared a drink (or 12) with you. Will be watching this space for more -- as has been covered in a few hundred other places, this will make little, if any, operational difference, but a symbol is gone.
I suppose it would be crass
I suppose it would be crass of me - amidst all this nobility - to observe that our brave and honorable soldiers are dying in Afghanistan, not in Pakistan.
There is no evidence that Osama was in Afghanistan any time after 2001. Rather, he was a mile down the road from the West Point of Pakistan. A country on which our national security apparatus has spent tens of billions of dollars.
Everyone associated with the US relationship with Pakistan needs to be fired before the end of May. I mean fired. They need to be driving cabs, or perhaps rickshaws - if they're so eager to defend the host country, why not stay? Relations with Pakistan should be severed for not less than a decade. Or, of course, we could invade their country, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.
GWB warned the Paks that they had to pick a side. Sounds like they didn't listen. Or maybe they knew us too well. I honestly do not see how the State Department can continue in operation after this embarrassment. Won't decent, outraged, freedom-loving Americans gather in mobs to throw rotten eggs at senior FSOs as they leave the Truman Building, scurrying rapidly away with briefcases full of taxpayer Benjamins to send to random thugs and murderers in far-off, worthless countries? Well, no, I guess they won't. Maybe that's the problem.
Because it's not like our relationship with Pakistan is any exception. It's just the most spectacular of this giant parade of global, multi-decade bureaucratic screwups. Why not just end diplomatic relations period, and occasionally email or even Skype like it was the 21st century or something? But, gosh, what would happen to the important academic field of "international relations?" You've got to admit it - US foreign policy is more scientific than ever before. No, we can't abandon this epochal intellectual achievement.
Obama succeeded on his fight
Obama succeeded on his fight against terrorism though many lives has been sacrifice due to bloodshed that took almost years . Now that Osama Binladen is Cold Dead Meat I hope the terrorism will ends on that. Too many died including innocent children. Lets unite to fight and stop any terrorism acts. http://www.facebook.com/osamaisdeadonmayday
After checking numerous news
After checking numerous news sources, it seems that Al Jazeera is just killing the other outlets in terms of comprehensiveness and depth of coverage. Brennan at the White House press conference was even citing Al Jazeera coverage inside Pakistan as an information source.
http://www.livestation.com/channels/3-al-jazeera-english-english
This sounds like a risky operation, too. Could have turned out like Carter's hostage rescue attempt. Good job, boys and girls!
(Of course it's nothing like when Saddam was captured. Saddam never had anything to do with terrorist attacks within the United States).
Props to President !!
Props to President !!
I believe Col. Gentile is
I believe Col. Gentile is correct. This is a much bigger deal than either Zarqawi's death or Saddam Hussein's capture. Where and how bin Laden was found, just by itself, has implications for the future of American policy toward Pakistan and the region that may take months or years to work out.
Also, this means I have to put on the shelf all my cutting remarks about how the overweight TSA guy fumbling with my laptop and asking me to put my loose change through the X-ray machine is on the front lines of the fight against bin Laden. That's all right, because I will have many new cutting remarks prepared any day now.
A lot of people and companies
A lot of people and companies also got rich from what Osama did, from all the military gear (5.11, Blackhawk, Maxpedition) to all the "solutions" companies around the beltway.
Most of the ones that made out like bandits were the folks that never volunteered for military service, but instead went for their masters and Phds in National Security & Terrorism studies and became "experts".
Lara Logan's interview was more interesting.
@ Zathras, TSA Screeners are
@ Zathras,
TSA Screeners are the number source of theft in Airports, consider yourself lucky. (Number two are baggage handlers).
Of course, we could have
Of course, we could have gotten this guy ten years ago, if the White House hadn't nixed Delta plans to come into Tora Bora from the Pakistan side:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/02/60minutes/main4494937.shtml
The only reason to stay in Afghanistan now is to protect TAPI, as UPI has reported:
"NEW DELHI, April 29 (UPI) -- Talks in New Delhi over a multilateral natural gas pipeline from Turkmenistan faltered because of concerns over fees and security, authorities said. New Delhi was the site this week for talks regarding the proposed Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India. The Western-backed natural gas pipeline is seen as a rival to Iran's plans to deliver gas from the South Pars complex in the Persian Gulf to its eastern neighbors."
That deal isn't worth a single American life. Let the Indians send in their troops - but that would lead to a nice little nuclear war with Pakistan, wouldn't it?
Or maybe the State Department wants to keep loading up their crony partners with taxpayer cash - NYT had a nice article on those shady deals, starring Black & Veatch, Louis Berger, Camp Dresser, etc:
"At their worst, the failures have financed the very insurgents that NATO and Afghan forces are struggling to defeat. Some American officials and contractors involved in the project suspect that at least some of the money funneled through Mr. Arafat made its way to the Haqqani group, a particularly brutal offshoot of the Taliban."
Time to pack it up and go home.
"It couldn't have been Osama
"It couldn't have been Osama bin Laden," declared 32-year-old trader Azhar Khan of the neighbour he had never known. "This is a very sensitive place, full of military and intelligence agencies. You can't live here for years without anyone knowing."
I had a Garmin Forerunner
I had a Garmin Forerunner (GPS/Running watch) that a TSA screener told me to take off. I did so, placed it on the pan, and went thru the metal detector, then I was "randomly" searched. I took my attention off my items to answer a TSA screeners questions, completed the secondary questioning, then checked my items and my $200 watch was gone. I immediately complained, a supervisor came and stated if I wanted to make a report. I looked around for security cameras, there were none, so I told him that if he wasn't going to search his screeners, especially the ones that just left (maybe to their break room), consider my watch a donation to National Security--hopefully they'll use it for a good running regimen.
Congratulations to all those
Congratulations to all those whose work culminated in UBL's death, especially DEVGRU and the SAD.
Although this symbolic defeat should be celebrated thoroughly, the government should use the new momentum and sever ties with Pakistan. America gives Pakistan billions each year in aid despite knowing ISI was assisting UBL. He was being kept in a mansion built specifically for him in the central location of the Pakistani army. Obviously, Pakistani intel had to know. The embarrassing diplomacy between the United States and Pakistan needs to end.
"It couldn't have been Osama
"It couldn't have been Osama bin Laden," declared 32-year-old trader Azhar Khan of the neighbour he had never known. "This is a very sensitive place, full of military and intelligence agencies. You can't live here for years without anyone knowing."
We want our money back from Pakistan. Make it happen, gian.
Abbottabad by James Abbott
I remember the day when I first came here
And smelt the sweet Abbottabad air
The trees and ground covered with snow
Gave us indeed a brilliant show
To me the place seemed like a dream
And far ran a lonesome stream
The wind hissed as if welcoming us
The pine swayed creating a lot of fuss
And the tiny cuckoo sang it away
A song very melodious and gay
I adored the place from the first sight
And was happy that my coming here was right
And eight good years here passed very soon
And we leave our perhaps on a sunny noon
Oh Abbottabad we are leaving you now
To your natural beauty do I bow
Perhaps your winds sound will never reach my ear
My gift for you is a few sad tears
I bid you farewell with a heavy heart
Never from my mind will your memories thwart
The town of Abbottabad in British India was the headquarters of the then Hazara district, and was named after Major James Abbott who founded the town and district in January 1853 after the annexation of the Punjab. He remained the first Deputy Commissioner of the Hazara district between 1849 until April 1853. Major Abbott is noted for having written a poem titled "Abbottabad", before he went back to Britain, in which he wrote of his fondness for the town and his sadness at having to leave it.
The only thing I see this
The only thing I see this possibly, but not necessarily, affecting is the relationship between the US and Pakistan, but lets enjoy the moment.
It's VE day.
It's VE day.
Well said, Andrew. -A Marine
Well said, Andrew.
-A Marine Captain
Here is the Campaigner and
Here is the Campaigner and Chief on the death penalty... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcl-T0P7xYU Illinois has pretty much shut down the death penalty. Death penalty is OK for the excluded few?
Guess Obama is OK with assassination (orders not to capture, but to kill?). Was there a trial? Didn't his administration sell the idea that terrorists are just criminals, that is why Obama wanted to move GTMO to NY ? Give terrorists the same rights as any other American for running planes into trade towers. My what a change.
Andrew, how does killing bin Laden demand the highest praise? It has been ten years.
I have mixed feelings. If the death was more timely, if it had occurred in Afghanistan where the war was first started then perhaps I would be more in line with your views of praise. The fact is the cost of blood and treasure. The fact that bin Laden was in Pakistan will not change a thing with US foreign aid and policy in the area. Pakistan will have to break it off with the US before the US cuts off aid to Pakistan. Clinton will keep the cash rolling.
There is one thing that I agree with in your post, killing bin Laden does not end this. If you believe in COIN then you know that bin Laden's death will only encourage his followers.
Sorry to rain on your parade.
Obama had to agree with the operation or look bad.
If I have to give praise, with would be for the DEVGRU folks who lead from the front. Not the double speaking bureaucrat that is trying to look good for re-election.
Sweet rumor - hope it's
Sweet rumor - hope it's true
US Navy Flight surgeons cut out OBL's heart to "bury under the entrance at DevGru Command" in Dam Neck Virginia
Nah No Cheer; It was a gutsy
Nah No Cheer;
It was a gutsy call by the President; and he managed this situation all the while in the weeks running up to it having to deal with the government shut-down, and the destruction of southern communities by tornadoes.
He deserves praise; and of course so do the fighting men who killed UBL and the intelligence work that went into it.
gian
Suppose there was a magic
Suppose there was a magic 8-ball in the White House? The magic 8-ball is briefed by highly competent briefers and planners and responds with "Let's go," "Wait a while," or "Not now, I'm playing golf." If they hear "Let's go," thousands of highly competent people go to work and get shit done.
You would not say, in this case, that the magic 8-ball had captured Osama. Or would you? God only knows.
Although this symbolic defeat should be celebrated thoroughly, the government should use the new momentum and sever ties with Pakistan. America gives Pakistan billions each year in aid despite knowing ISI was assisting UBL. He was being kept in a mansion built specifically for him in the central location of the Pakistani army. Obviously, Pakistani intel had to know. The embarrassing diplomacy between the United States and Pakistan needs to end.
How exactly is that going to happen? In Washington there are thousands of people who have made careers out of this "embarrassing diplomacy." Are you going to involuntarily retire them? Use them for bayonet practice? Transfer them to the Argentina desk, where they can eat big beefsteaks and perfect their tango? Really, any of these options is fine with me. But none of them seems realistic in the real Washington, which is why I suspect nothing at all is going to happen.
OBL's parts to wipe your feet
OBL's parts to wipe your feet on. Interesting.
Think those days are gone. Think Hillary would approve? This is the post-tail hook days.
Gian, why was it a gutsy call?
Having to deal with tornadoes? You mean having someone fly AF1 to Florida to be disappointed that their was not launch, hop-knob with Giffords for the press. Fly to AL to get out and walk around and say,"I never seen destruction like this before". I have seen tornado destruction before, right in the same state that Obama called home. Happens every year.
Having to deal with tornadoes is getting out and picking up the pieces of someone's home that is spread across a corn field. Not walking around saying, gee that must have hurt.
I do not see the guts.
"Obama had to agree with the
"Obama had to agree with the operation or look bad."
Right, because JFK looked great when he went along with Bay of Pigs... Carter looked great when he went along with Eagle Claw...
"If you believe in COIN then
"If you believe in COIN then you know that bin Laden's death will only encourage his followers."
I guess that's the utter abject stupidity of COIN theory in a nutshell.
Back in 1999 / 2000, I had
Back in 1999 / 2000, I had attended college in the mid-west United States. One of the students at that school was a 28 year old paki-male citizen (on a Student Visa), who's father (he claimed) was one of the top-military-engineer's in that country. This young man even claimed his father had designed and oversaw the construction of Pakistan's largest ASP, that stored Pakistan's nuclear weapons. This is the same facility that had/has fighter jets flying over it 24/7, protecting it from India.
This student once bragged at the cafeteria lunch table, that OBL would visit his former military academy in Abbottabad, Pakistan and speak to the student's attending or about to graduate from that military academy. He claimed to have met OBL and said he shook his hand.
Anyway, to sum it up, it doesn't surprise me (now), that OBL was found, where he was. Most people on the run, hide where they feel safest. My best guess is, OBL built a strong long-term friendship with several of the Military Officers at that Academy. I don't believe it was ISI that was helping him that much or who was involved in hiding him, it very well may have been the Pakistan military / academy leadership.
Knowing that OBL loved inspiring young men of Islam, even more so Pakistan Military Academy Student's, who he was visiting at least once or twice a year, back in the 90's, I wouldn't be surprised if he visited that same Academy after Tora-Bora, to seek medical attention and long term protection. I hope someone from USG takes a closer look at that Academy, as I believe it holds more information to what was going on the last 10 years.
OBL felt most at home with the people of this community. They hid him for the better part of the last two decade from his enemies and said nothing to us while doing it..
Now that the jig is up, I'm sure many of those involved, in Pakistan are sweating it out. Perhaps some will commit suicide, some will run for their lives and others will sit and wait. I'm sure if there were anything with any intelligence value in OBL's home, it's being decrypted, translated and reviewed right now. Who knows what they will find? I hope they find the rest of the rat's in the nest and do it quickly.
Thank you for sharing your words and the names of those brave men who lost their lives while defending our country AM. Thank you also for your service and the burden you've carried all these years.
It's time for all of us to move forward and let the healing begin.
The most interesting thing
The most interesting thing is, what will this mean for politics in Pakistan?
M6....It sounds like this.
M6....It sounds like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe5BFWgGgeY&feature=related
Just think of the flak that Obama would have gotten in 2012 if he had not acted. There are volumes of political commercials from the Clinton era slamming Mr. Bill for not acting.
Oh Geez...Guess we will find out in the next several months if AQ returns the favor.
http://www.vanguardngr.com/20
http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/05/osama-how-he-died/
All I really feel like saying
All I really feel like saying is screw Pakistan, and screw the political class that's going to keep handing them billions of dollars a year. Oh, and screw the policy-making community that, in spite of all common sense, launched a massive social experiment in Afghanistan, in spite of the fact it's already slim hopes were dependent on a country (Pakistan) clearly committed to its failure. It took a special set of arrogant egg-heads to come up with that policy choice.
"I had told myself for years
"I had told myself for years that the death of Osama bin Laden would not mean anything. Decapitation campaigns against sophisticated, mature terrorist networks, I knew, rarely yield strategic effects. But standing in that Washington bar, I was overcome with emotion. "
Thank you. That almost exactly sums up my emotions. ALMOST, because I watched to POTUS announcement from a Brigade TOC here in Afghanistan and what with G.O. # 1 and all.....
"Guess we will find out in
"Guess we will find out in the next several months if AQ returns the favor."
Hello, if they have the capability to hit us, they're going to do it anyway, whether we hit OBL or not.
If an attack happens soon, like in the next several months, then they may announce the attack was "revenge for Osama" but since they put the attack in the pipeline before Osama was killed, therefore killing Osama did not cause the attack. Maybe an attack a year or more from now could be considered the "revenge for Osama" attack, but again, do you really want to argue they would NOT have attacked us if OBL were still alive?
How many terrorists are going to be demoralized and quit because we killed OBL? "No matter how long it takes, the US will get you" has gotta be a tremendous boost to AQ recruitment, LOL. And how many Muslims are not going to join AQ because we killed Osama? Neither quantity is precisely knowable, but they are certainly non-zero.
If you don't hit the enemy as hard as you can as often as you can, then you are a fool and you deserve to lose your war.
Well celebrated and well
Well celebrated and well said, Andrew.
I rejoice that Osama bin
I rejoice that Osama bin Laden has met his end. But I have to wonder about the billions of dollars in subsidy, much of it military, that has been sent to the Pakistanis at the expense of the U.S. taxpayer, all the while Osama has been living since perhaps 2005 in a mansion in Abbottabad within rifle shot of the Pakistani military academy.
The suspicion grows that he was kept there, safe and comfortable, so that the Pakis could milk the United States Treasury for several years during which somehow, no one could find Osama.
Rudyard Kipling knew these people well, and these lines of his seem apt:
"Now it is not good for the Christian's health to hustle the Aryan brown,
For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles, and he weareth the Christian down;
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear: "A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East."
There is pleasure in the wet, wet clay
When the artist's hand is potting it.
There is pleasure in the wet, wet lay =
When the poet's pad is blotting it.
There is pleasure in the shine of your picture on the line
At the Royal Academy;
But the pleasure felt in these is as chalk to Cheddar cheese
When it comes to a well-made Lie -
To a quite unwreckable Lie,
To a most impeccable Lie!
To a water-tight, fireproof-angle-iron, sunk-hinge, time-lock, steel-faced Lie!
Not a private handsome Lie,
But a pair-and-brougham Lie,
Not a little-place-at-Tooting, but a country-house-with-shooting
And a ring-fence-deer-park Lie."
Yes, we've killed Osama at last, and he is not only merely dead, but really most sincerely dead. Yet at what cost? Perhaps a trillion dollars, and thousands of Americans lying under "tombstones white," because the East has hustled our government on a grand scale.
I will not believe UBL is
I will not believe UBL is dead untill I see his long form death certificate.
Can someone please explain to
Can someone please explain to me the inference that everyone is drawing and that I appear to be missing between proximity to the training academy and the ISI's knowledge, support, and funding of OBL?
OBL being half a mile away from the training academy --> _________________________ --> ISI supporting OBL
Please explain. From my understanding, the compound was suspicious because it was larger than surrounding buildings, had high walls, burned their own trash, had no phone or internet service, etc. But is there anything to indicate that it was anything other than a highly religious, conservative Muslim family? If so, why? Who should have investigated this, and for what purpose?
On the flip side, can someone
On the flip side, can someone explain to me why everyone is surprised about the ISI's double-handedness in taking American funding on one hand and supporting Islamic radicals on the other? This has been going on for a very long time and is pretty common knowledge. So my question is twofold:
1) Why are people drawing the inference that OBL's location means the ISI has been supporting him? followed by
2) Why are people surprised/shocked by this EVEN IF ITS TRUE that the ISI has been supporting him, given the ISI's long history of supporting Islamic radicals?
I appreciate your speculating
I appreciate your speculating as it attracts people’s attention and make this topic discussable.D&G sungalsses
I appreciate your speculating
I appreciate your speculating as it attracts people’s attention and make this topic discussable.
I note the negative feelings,
I note the negative feelings, from many in this forum, towards Pakistani Leadership for their perfidy. The feeling is that all monetary contributions from the US government should cease, and that relations between the two countries should cool considerably.
Cool! I’m all in. So, I hope the 0-7 to the 0-10 and NCA crowd have a worst case scenario Op-Order ginned up, in case the Pak Government decides to shut the logistics pipe between the Persian Gulf and Afghanistan, as a result of the Uncle Sugar’s deciding to cank their Dollar fix.
Is there enough sustainment on the ground to hold off shortages in sustainment? I’m no logistician, but it would seem that a redirect to Russia and the Stans would take some time. Any Log geniuses out there?
Osama was just a gear
Osama was just a gear wheel of the entire terrorist. Unfortunately, Osama was once our ally and we had all the faults of the system. He knew that Americans are a vengeful people and not know how to lead a healthy foreign policy. Centuries and that's what we do and we will do next. So hatred of Arab countries will be increasingly higher, with or without Osama.
from inmultire albine, Migai Hernandes
OH SNAP Obama PWNS Pakistan.
OH SNAP
Obama PWNS Pakistan. I can't help it, I'm liking this side of him...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/08/osama-bin-laden-pakistan-obama
I had got a desire to make my
I had got a desire to make my own organization, but I did not have got enough amount of money to do this. Thank God my close colleague recommended to utilize the home loans. Thence I took the car loan and made real my old dream.
Do you know your laptop
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Please explain. From my
Please explain. From my understanding, the compound was suspicious because it was larger than surrounding buildings, had high walls, burned their own trash, had no phone or internet service, etc. But is there anything to indicate that it was anything other than a highly religious, conservative hebergeur d'image Muslim family? If so, why? Who should have investigated this, and for what purpose?
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