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But seriously, which one of you was Osama bin Laden? (Updated)
May 3, 2011 | Posted by Abu Muqawama - 10:40pm | 57 Comments
Apparently my blog had a regular reader in Abbottabad. Anyone want to take a guess as to which nut-job Abu Muqawama commenter was really Osama bin Laden?
Update: Solved! It was, as a reader pointed out, probably one of the spooks across the street.
According to the NSA, there
According to the NSA, there was no internet or phone service at Osama's compound. How ironic would it be if he was using an iphone?
That's funny. I had 5 visits
That's funny. I had 5 visits from readers or a reader from Abbottabad. Although I think the readers that came to my blog were guys interested in security contracting.
Fnord, I'd bet.
Fnord, I'd bet.
Tupac
Tupac
lol was gonna guess FNord
lol was gonna guess FNord since they both think the Fateful Triangle is an awesome book. But realistically, it would be someone who trolls here, cause what is a troll but an internet terrorist?
Oh, for Ch***t's sake, Alex,
Oh, for Ch***t's sake, Alex, take a couple of anthro and sociology courses and get over it!
Reader does not equate to commenter.
it was SNLII at Abbottabad.
it was SNLII at Abbottabad.
"there was no (hard-line)
"there was no (hard-line) internet or phone (land-line) service at Osama's compound" Fact. This is Pakistan folks!
Most 3rd world countries don't have hard-line phone or fiber-optic internet services. HELLO! Also, most people burn their trash in the third world, even people who live in million dollar mansions in Pakistan. Nothing strange or suspicious about this information. Mr. Anderson (sexist gay man in D.C.) Cooper keeps bringing this information up tonight, which is rather comical.
The diagram on the link: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2bcOT0jA4kM/Tb-cAyD5IhI/AAAAAAAAHEs/Jv1E_nInFj...
The diagram shows two satellite dishes. One most likely for TV, the other most likely a encrypted satellite dish for phone and internet services. Do you think that SIGINT or other agencies are happy they didn't find the communications equipment sooner?
Several bad guy's / former nation leaders, who have been deposed of power, arrested by the United Nations or the U.S. have had in their possession and purchased new encrypted satellite technology, even after embargo's were imposed on them . If you have the money or precious jewels, you can buy almost anything you want. Asia, Euro and Middle Eastern Communications Companies all sell this equipment and they will sell it to anyone.
Do you really think DoD is going to tell the world everything they found? Guess again. They will trace serial numbers, bill of sale, make, model and all the information on and in the equipment. That raised wall on the third story of the building, could easily hide other satellite communications equipment. Most people who are smart, use walls to hide satellite dishes. It's a common practice, but I digress.
What I want to know is, how much money did they find?
How many bars of gold, jewels or other precious items did they find in the house?
Were there any hidden compartments or rooms? What was in those rooms?
Is there still money, LOTS OF MONEY hidden or buried on that compound? He was suppose to have millions of dollars....where did it all go?
If I was a poor disadvantaged child in that neighborhood, I would grab a metal detector and a shovel and start digging my ass off, knocking down walls and tearing up the floors. There wouldn't be much left of that compound.
Lastly, I'm curious to know if the FBI is moving towards seizing all this computer and communications equipment from the DoD or if other agencies will protest and start fighting over the evidence and items seized.
I've got a strange feeling that FBI might move to seize this evidence, but I hope everyone involved (from all agencies) will be professional and work together, to find and bring to justice the remaining members of AQ..
My privilege ... I apologize
My privilege ... I apologize for it. But at the same time... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League
One's freedom of speech is terrorism to others.
Don't f'king tread on me. I was Northern then; I'm American now.
The link at 230 am was
The link at 230 am was supposed to be this: http://www.thejidf.org/
I've been reading about Leo Strauss; it seems to have wonked my brain.
There have been several
There have been several suspicious looking comments from somebody who went by "Vistor"...that would be my guess.
OH SNAP LOL. Exum now
OH SNAP LOL. Exum now really your name dropping is now officially a pathology. I mean really.
It was the gay obsessed troll. Who else?
Andrew, are your playing with
Andrew, are your playing with your Oujia again?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl-1LkbvtTY&feature=related
Anon Bold from the old blog.
Anon Bold from the old blog.
I'm going with the Lego man
I'm going with the Lego man in the header. He's gotta be overcompensating for something and we know bin Laden wasn't exactly the most active or central leader of AQ in the last few years...
They should've sent the
They should've sent the Rangers in for UBL, and screw it up like Somalia.
1. If you say, UBL hid
1. If you say, UBL hid behind women, it's obvious this is some sort of propaganda (it's what Saddam Hussein, Mubarak, Assad would say, ie "Mother of ALL Wars")
2. If you keeping saying that dumping UBL's body is "Islamic" burial, it's patronizing. Don't connect him to the Ummah, don't legitimize his Islamic connection. Just say his body was dumped at sea, peacefully and respectfully, don't say Islamic.
3. If UBL had no gun, he had no gun, why make up a story to justify killing him. UBL is a murderer on the run, whose escape would cause more deaths, this means we can kill him even when he's bathing.
Can someone please explain to
Can someone please explain to me the inference that everyone is drawing and that I appear to be missing between proximity to the training academy and the ISI's knowledge, support, and funding of OBL?
OBL being half a mile away from the training academy --> _________________________ --> ISI supporting OBL
Please explain. From my understanding, the compound was suspicious because it was larger than surrounding buildings, had high walls, burned their own trash, had no phone or internet service, etc. But is there anything to indicate that it was anything other than a highly religious, conservative Muslim family? If so, why? Who should have investigated this, and for what purpose?
.
UBL used to be a guest
UBL used to be a guest speaker at the Military Academy nearby.
"it was SNLII at
"it was SNLII at Abbottabad."
Agreed.
:LOL:
Carl Prine, 3. If UBL had no
Carl Prine,
3. If UBL had no gun, he had no gun, why make up a story to justify killing him. UBL is a murderer on the run, whose escape would cause more deaths, this means we can kill him even when he's bathing.
I don't know the Fourth Geneva Conventions is pretty specific about treatment of POW's. Afghanistan is a declared war by Congress and the US is giving POW protection under the Geneva conventions. It is why Abu Ghraib was such an issue and also water boarding.
Are you telling me that UBL is exempt? This is the war on terror and URL was its General.
Does this mean that AQ can treat the US Generals in the same way?
Carl for what you are telling me, we can shoot any prisoner at will cause they are all murderers on the run.
"Can someone please explain
"Can someone please explain to me the inference that everyone is drawing and that I appear to be missing between proximity to the training academy and the ISI's knowledge, support, and funding of OBL?"
I'll defer to Robert Baer, who noted the other day that the Pakistani internal security apparatus was too pervasive to allow a high-security compound near a military academy to go unchecked, because for all they knew it could have been indian spies in there. "They" (by which I mean some element of intelligence/military/security) would have at least had to check out what was going on there.
I really do think there are too many blanket statements thrown around.....knowledge of OBL's location would have had to be kept in the tightest possible circle even if the ISI was entirely sympathetic to his cause, which I would doubt. Too many ways that info could leak. I would imagine that very few knew where he was or who was living there.....but it seems very likely he had some measure of official protection.
UBL was a criminal, a
UBL was a criminal, a felon/murderer on the run. Check any police rules on catching murderers on the run. Yep, you don't give them a chance to escape. This ain't WWII or WWI or the Civil War, buddy. Throw away Article 13 and Presidential Order 12333. This is how the Big Boys play.
It wasn't me Andrew. If it
It wasn't me Andrew. If it was, I would have had you hunted down and killed for your all blacks - tea bag joke.
If you don't know how Osama
If you don't know how Osama died, then you don't need to know. Read C.S. Lewis' take on this:
"In the passage I have just read from Tolstoy, the young second lieutenant Boris Dubretskoi discovers that there exist in the army two different systems or hierarchies. The one is printed in some little red book and anyone can easily read it up. It also remains constant. A general is always superior to a colonel, and a colonel to a captain. The other is not printed anywhere. Nor is it even a formally organised secret society with officers and rules which you would be told after you had been admitted. You are never formally and explicitly admitted by anyone. You discover gradually, in almost indefinable ways, that it exists and that you are outside it; and then later, perhaps, that you are inside it."
http://www.lewissociety.org/innerring.php
That Robert Baer comment on
That Robert Baer comment on the Pakistan obsession with Indian spies in Abottabad (a bing a boom) seems on the money. These guys would have needed a cover story - and apparently the locals were calling them the "Waziristan mansion."
"The locals used to call the house Waziristan Haveli as it was owned by a transporter from Waziristan."
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/osama-mansion-was-called-waziristan-ha...
Let's read between the lines: the cover story could have been that of a heroin kingpin's private squat, something that the Pakistani military would have looked the other way for in exchange for a few bribes. Rule #1 in the illegal drug business? "Show me the fucking money!"
That's one way they could have "hid in plain view" - wouldn't be surprised to find that was the case. Afghanistan and NW Pakistan is currently the world center of illegal heroin production. A fat cat from Waziristan - how else would they explain it? Plenty of similar McMansions in Kabul too - though there, the other option is kickbacks from shady USAID contracting deals. Rotten to the core, in either case.
I also wouldn't be surprised to see a Saudi tie-in with the finances. It takes a lot of cash to support what, 20 people for five years in style and secrecy, right? Where did that cash come from? Had to come from somewhere, didn't it? Where's the fucking money trail? Same old, same old - a few Saudi charities or Saudi money launderers were probably involved.
Such a cover - heroin-based - is the only way they could have remained hidden - the only other option is that elements of the Pakistani ISI was complicit in hiding bin Laden.
On the other hand, if elements of the Pakistani government did give up bin Laden to the U.S., the last thing they'd do is admit it, because then they'd be worried about taking the heat from Pakistani groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba (recall the Mumbai terror attacks?). Those guys are protesting OBL's death, right? So it could be a bit of political misdirection, one that Pakistan insisted on.
P.S. What would everyone be saying now if they'd followed Gate's suggestion and cratered the place with 30 2,000 lb bombs? Think about that before criticizing the strategy used.
AM Apparently, it was Gary
AM
Apparently, it was Gary Faulkner (license to kill gophers... by the Government of the United Nations), who scared OBL out of his hole, he used your website for intelligence "while on the hunt" and the Seal's merely "capped him". Faulkner now wants 25% of the reward. Yes, that's no B.S.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/05/colo-ram...
If we wanted to send someone to scare OBL out of his hole, we would have sent Carl Spackler. Someone needs to slap Faulkner. Please.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv87T1CQF8E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmI2Ju9pbHE
A few PR folks are complaining about the use of the code word "Geronimo" - and of course OBL was a soft Saudi billionaire hiding behind women and children, not the legendary Apache fighter - but the clip is worth watching.
"Not so good - I aimed for his head!"
I feel so giddy.
I appreciate your speculating
I appreciate your speculating as it attracts people’s attention and make this topic discussable.
Obama could not wait until
Obama could not wait until the next 9/11 anniversary to lay a wreath at ground zero.
He is milking this one for all its glory. Gloating is as bad as releasing photos, Mr. President. How many times do you have to make that speech?
Really, this campaigning is really getting out of hand. I am paying for the jet fuel and protection service. Giffords get shot and Obama has a rock concert. Loads Congressmen on AF1 and hauls them out to AZ for a day. How many is he going to take to NY?
Tornadoes in the south, Obama shows up for a day. What is more important? Which has more campaign value?
Completely inappropriate for a head of state.
It is starting to feel like one of those old western movies were the lynch mob approaches the jail and the only person truly interested in justice is the true hero.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QjhsU5YhnA
The tornadoes were Pres.
The tornadoes were Pres. Barry O.'s fault. He knows Kenyan/Indonesian voodoo.
We are talking about Obama's
We are talking about Obama's response to domestic issues.
Chris O'Malley, that is a interesting fantasy.
Lot of scholars are looking at the legal aspects of killing UBL. Interesting that the White House stopped releasing details. Eric Holder is just a yes man.
Now Obama wants a repeat performance in Libya......talking about over reach.
hey gian, please set this
hey gian, please set this bozo straight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbjbnlgDqRo (Bill Rhetts, BSer extraordinaire)
I hope these "terrorist" experts will dwindle now that UBL is gone. there are way too many "experts" in this field.
Maybe your visitor was the
Maybe your visitor was the Abbotabad ISI chief, checking around to see if you were closing in on his buddy.
Maybe it was Rudy Reyes
Maybe it was Rudy Reyes trying to land an acting/fitness job in Abottabad and score some hot Pakistani chicks.
Now we are off to Fort
Now we are off to Fort Campbell??? Loose lips sink ships, Mr. President (Does he have a security clearance? Like they say in real estate, location is everything)
They left a big crumb in Pakistan, an eyewitness from the bedroom.
Obama can hang his hat on the legality of the OBL raid linking it to the Resolution passed by Congress after 9/11 allowing all necessary and appropriate force to be used against those nations, organizations, or persons that aided the Trade Tower attacks. Doing so is a bit of a problem cause the Obama administration set the precedence when they took a stand on water boarding the GTMO prisoners that were linked to the trade tower attacks. Either you can use all necessary and appropriate force on those persons are you can not. Does killing OBL go beyond water boarding? The precedence was set again with Eric Holder trying to bring the GTMO prisoners involved in the Trade Tower plot to US soil and put them in a civil court, thereby changing the standard of the Congressional Resolution. Obama wants to have his cake and eat it too. The double talk is thick.
Mr. President, maybe you should put one more visit in to your victory lap and go to George W.'s home and apologize for telling the world how wrong he was.
US law gives some protection to law enforcement for the use of lethal force if there is an imminent threat, but Pakistan is not the US. Presidential orders might give some protection, but as we found with the CIA guy working in Pakistan that shot in self defense it is better to buy your way out than to rest your case on a presidential order.
International Law applies in Pakistan. There was no consent for the US operation on Pakistan's soil. This is the reason that it is so important for the Obama administration to show that the Pakistan government could not fulfill their duties on the war on terror. Pakistan has to be the problem, for Obama to be legal. Is the US going to stop aid to Pakistan? No it will not. How can the US continue aid to a Pakistan government that is NOT capable fulfilling their duties? Opposite statements, be careful of what you wish for.
What happened to the Arab Spring? All those Arab governments that the US has been supporting for 30 years that never really met US ideology. Now the US is chucking Libya's and Egypt's leadership. It is a double edge sword. How does Syria, Bahrain, and Pakistan fit that picture? Double speak is getting as thick as the stack of US dollars we are giving these foreign governments.
Pretty much leaves the concept that OBL and AQ have a track record of being unpredictable. These are dangerous people so the US can shoot them any time and anywhere the US desires. Now we are back to the water boarding argument, GTMO, and all the above discussion. Double helpings of cake and ice cream, Mr. President? Are you trying to tell us that terrorist are dangerous bomb toting fanatics or just common criminals that should be protected by US civil rights? Which one is it, I am confused.
Really the legality of the raid depends on the dynamics in the third story bedroom of the OBL residence and where Pakistan stands on the capability question. The Obama administration made this a non-military issue when they made the raid a CIA case as a work around International law. Only the CIA, a non-military organization, has authority and or consent to operate in Pakistan. International law rules. US law and the Geneva convention are just our ideology conscience speaking, they are only applicable when we want them to be this was not a military operation by the Obama administration definition.
No wonder the Obama administration is interested in talking to the eye witnesses they shot and left behind. Pakistan holds the cards and the blank US State Department Check. Hillary is going to have a chance to polish, shine, and lay a big wet kiss on Pakistan's butt.
Funny, think I see the future. The US is going to buy its way out.....again. Aid to Pakistan is NOT going to DECREASE, it is going to INCREASE BIG TIME.
Ain't it great to work with such capable governments ! They will see it any way we pay them to see it.
Maybe it is time to change how the US does its foreign policy, this is getting shady. It is hard to see any "guts" in Obama's actions when he has the full amount of the US treasury to bail him out of his over reach problems.
Libya is next.
The rumours of my death are
The rumours of my death are exagerrated ;-) My guess is anon bold, and the homohater...
Seriously, its a shame that Obama just legitimized targeted assasinations. The Israelis are beside themselves with joy, Jerusalem Post has had several articles already indicating that this means hunting season is open on anyone deemed to be a enemy of the state.
I hope we killed UBL like
I hope we killed UBL like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dZU8RqenlU ("Heat", Waingro's hotel room scene)
We didn't need UBL holding a gun or hiding behind a woman, just like this is fine.
I hope we killed UBL just
I hope we killed UBL just like Waingro in HEAT too. fnord is another NATO homo. I'm glad they didn't send Norway special forces, they would've just arrested UBL and sent him to the Hague. homos!!!
Look at me. Look at me!
Look at me. Look at me! LOOK at ME! *bang*, *bang* (one in the chest, one in the head)
I love it. I hope SEAL Team 6 was listening to Beyonce's "I'm Proud to be an American" in their choppers when returning to base.
Norwegian troops would have
Norwegian troops would have cuddled with Osama and given him a hand job en route. When you want a bad guy taken out with extreme prejudice, you send Americans, Norwegians aren't really know for these types of operations. Yes, I just saw "Thor" but that's all comic books, fnord--kinda like your Hot African "girlfriends".
>Seriously, its a shame that
>Seriously, its a shame that Obama just legitimized targeted assasinations. The Israelis are beside themselves with joy, Jerusalem Post has had several articles already indicating that this means hunting season is open on anyone deemed to be a enemy of the state.
You know, I've read about a lot of moral systems with fucked up coordinates, but I've never heard of one where the main criterion by which something is judged is whether it makes the Jews happy or not.
Apropos of nothing, is this believable?
http://socyberty.com/issues/white-house-insider-obama-hesitated-panetta-...
I've seen a lot of this kind of thing on the lower levels, but wasn't sure it existed up there.
PS: Jews? Whats that gotta do
PS: Jews? Whats that gotta do w the country wich shall not be named?
fnord, Norway suffered like
fnord,
Norway suffered like 11 casualties, total. Eleven. And your military is destroyed? Don't get to overdramatic.
Ex, It couldn't be one of the
Ex,
It couldn't be one of the CIA folks, because their safe house was just set up last summer.
Is this thread still going?
Is this thread still going? it was quite obviously somebody or some people from the militarty academy.
Probably during lectures on insurgency - a disagreement arises, ' what will the americans do if we try that?' and is promptly settled by asking the counterinsurgency experts.
I love the early 21st Century.
Remember this old flick?
Remember this old flick? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7CBKT0PWFA It was one of those movies from the civil rights movement of the 60's. Seems that civil rights never go away. Do they, Mr. President?
Interesting, the Obama administration was working up to the Bin Laden raid, you can tell by the words in this.
Harold Koh from Obama's administration on International Law
The above was buried in a link from this
If I was juror number twelve, there would be some troubling facts in this case. It is always about proving intent. You have highly trained professionals. Professionals that train over and over again to get it right. Professionals so trained in shooting that they can hit the central nervous system of a Somali Pirate from 100 meters on the deck of a bobbing ship. Professionals that are trained to subdue a person without the use of firearms. Members of an organization that only selects the cream of the best.
Mission: Capture or Kill, with fear of radical terrorists.
1) If you are trained professional and fear radicals, then why shoot a woman in the leg? You are in the devils own bedroom. AQ has a history of using women.
2) You are protecting civilians, is that why you only shot the woman in the leg? What about the rest of the crowd, were they AQ or civilians? You have the best and most accurate firearms that technology can produce.
3) If you're trained to subdue a person without firearms, then why the double tap to the chest and follow with the head of the mission target? You fear radicals with explosive vests, but you just shot a woman in the leg. We have seen the bedroom photos, the room was not that large and the blood pool is closer to the door than the other side of the room, this was close quarters.
Think there would be a lot of discussion after the case is presented to the jury. The intent is clear. Obama administration made this a civil rights case when he handed it over to a civil authority, the CIA.
Lot of double talk going on. Who is next?
UBL's dead, no one cares
UBL's dead, no one cares about you playing juror 12. Eat more burgers, Michael Moore, you fat slob!
LIKE I think the Norsemen
LIKE
I think the Norsemen handled their weight. But this entire thing is out of sector for NATO, and what we really need is transit rights, bases, etc. It's time to let NATO go home.
meanwhile I am listening to MSNBC talking heads being rather bloodthirsty...my my. It's ok libs, I like this side of you.
never mind Israel fnord, WTF is Pakistan going to do...
Yamamoto? Heydrich? What's
Yamamoto? Heydrich? What's the difference? When the war is over you can nuremburg or eichmann. But when the war is still going you get to kill people
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