Abu Muqawama: Post
Abu Muqawama retains its autonomy and the views and beliefs expressed within the blog do not reflect those of CNAS. Abu Muqawama retains the right to delete comments that include words that incite violence; are predatory, hateful, or intended to intimidate or harass; or degrade people on the basis of gender, race, class, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. In summary, don't be a jerk.
Why This Blog Avoids Israel and the Palestinians
Here you have it, gang. This is why most people choose to simply leave any and all discussion of Israel and the Palestinians to the extremists and crazies. Because if I were to mention "Jeff Goldberg of The Atlantic," the first thing to pop into your head would be "Soros Bolshevik Kapo asshole," right? Or perhaps simply "self-loathing Jew?" Both, you say?
Any young scholar who wants to do policy-relevant work on Israel or the Palestinians needs their head examined. In the discourse, at least, you're either a gun-toting, jack-booted Zionist pig or an Islamist suicide-bombing anti-Semite. And sometimes both at the same time. No thanks.
Bingo. It took me a few years
Bingo. It took me a few years to stop thinking of the Israeli-Palestinian issue as a reasonable area of study. This was after being in too many meetings where it was either Amero-Zionists who I couldn't stand listening to, or the hopey dopey peaceniks who thought that doing their micro level work where thousands of dollars were wasted wouldn't listen to me.
The truth is that it is a machine, where peace is the goal and cannot be achieved, nor does it want to be achieved because once it does then the money dries out.
Pound of flesh is always
Pound of flesh is always expensive.
Makes you wonder why the US spends so much time on Israel-Palestinian peace. Been going at it since '49. Every time the US touches it we have to internalize the issues and it always costs us in treasure. US took in immigrants and we now have lobbying groups on both sides of the argument.
Why do we do this to ourselves? I am ready to be a non-super power agricultural based economy again.
China has it right.
PS. Why is the US spending so much on military and intelligence these days? Fighting terrorism?
I agree with you
I agree with you wholeheartedly. It's impossible to have a reasonable discussion about Israel/Palestine when such ridiculously loud extremists are present on both sides.
When I was a student at NYU, our International Relations Society debates & discussions had strict "No Israel/Palestine" rules for a reason. Almost any topic could somehow transform into an Israel/Palestine debate (did I say debate? I mean slugfest) within 3 exchanges.
Andrew I'm in complete
Andrew I'm in complete agreement, as an arabist as well as a soldier I feel it is impossible to offer any scholarship on a conflict which has been drained of almost all pragmatism, and on which polarization of opinion makes reconciliation impossible. Of those who know enough about the situation most have a firmly entrenched narrative of events, thus objective critical analysis becomes almost impossible. I remember as an undergrad a few years ago avoiding like the plague all the modules available in the subject, polarization of academics does not a fertile ground for coursework make!
Whats wrong Andrew..... can
Whats wrong Andrew.....
can not stand the heat?
i would like to offer the
i would like to offer the point that the far right is weirder than the far left these days.
And yet there are plenty of
And yet there are plenty of smart, non-extremists who take on the Ziontinian Question. Why?
Money, fame, and power, of course. It is a multi-million dollar business.
Nobody actually has any interest in "peace" between Israel and its enemies. The U.S. least of all. Were the U.S. interested in peace, it and its sock-puppet the UN would stop funding anti-Israeli movements, directly and indirectly, and shut up. All the militant anti-Israel crazies would soon be dead, and the rest would see the writing on the wall and get real jobs. Israel's borders would be wherever the IDF could defend them. If the militant Zionist crazies pushed beyond a defensible limit, then the neighboring regimes, free of U.S. "influence" would overrun Israel and destroy it.
Either way, one side or the other would lose. Permanently. That's how you achieve "lasting peace".
And that's why it won't happen. There could be no "peace industry" were peace actually achieved. How many columns will Goldberg get out of this one incident? Do you get paid to re-post your hate mail? I sure don't. In other news, a number of stupid people read blogs at The Atlantic. I doubt this is all that shocking to the magazine's Editors.
The whole thing is a scam.
Needless to say, any scholar who wants to cash in on this bonanza will jump into the Israel/Palestinian discourse with both feet.
What drives me nuts is the
What drives me nuts is the lack of emphasis on the needs of the U.S. Lots of talk about Israel, Hamas and Hezballah. Not much talk about how this affects or benefits the U.S. You never see a good fundamental analysis of the benefits of maintaining an alliance with Israel.
Steve
reminds me of
reminds me of http://www.theonion.com/articles/government-official-who-makes-perfectly...
reminds me of
reminds me of http://www.theonion.com/articles/government-official-who-makes-perfectly...
You think you (and Jeff
You think you (and Jeff Goldberg) have it bad? Try being an Arab Jew and son/nephew/uncle of IDF soldiers in love with an American-born Palestinian Muslim whose parents still bear the physical and psychological scars of occupation and the seizing of their lands. We get that kind of condemnation in three languages, sometimes in combination.
Yes, those letter are from unhinged people, and I don't doubt that he's received scores more. And yes, it's very hard to have a rational, unemotional discussion about the issue with damned near anyone (save for you, Habibi). But I think it's precisely when those of us who want to see the situation settled in good faith on both sides decide not to talk that we cede the entire conversation to the crazies, who then get to define both the boundaries of the debate and push us even further apart.
I've been called many a vile thing by my family, including a traitor to the memory of my beloved grandmother, for voicing criticisms that any rational person would deem obvious. And so has my significant other, for voicing opinions that were deemed to conciliatory to Israel. But young Jews and Palestinian Muslims can't let the extremists force us from the debate just so they can settle scores with the other side, all the while condemning each successive generation to more hate and violence. The hatred hardens and corrupts the soul, demanding ever-more self-delusional "justifications" to keep the cycle going.
I'll admit to not being overly fond of some of Goldberg's past writing, but I find it ironic that he's now being called a Kapo, the same slur that Jeffrey Wiesenfeld said his mother would have called Tony Kushner, a fact which was reported in an post of Goldberg's blog. It's just emblematic of how crazy the truly extreme are. But at the end of the day, it's not the extremists who will make peace, but those of us -- even committed partisans -- who are willing to keep talking and debating in good faith who will make peace.
"Either way, one side or the
"Either way, one side or the other would lose. Permanently. That's how you achieve "lasting peace."
Yep.
@Steve - our interest in Israel if nothing else: geography. It's the Levant and the eastern flank of the Med. The same interest the Babylonians, Persians, Macedonians, Romans, Turks, and British had in it. It was more interesting during the Cold War for us, at least until 9/11. Between the current war of terror, Jihad, Takfiri or whatever you want to call it and the Second Intifada just preceding it, that probably killed any chance of peace, if there was one.
Yes to peace being an industry, and yes to if we pulled out of the UN it would quickly end.
Well, I sympathize. The
Well, I sympathize. The Israeli-Palestinian quarrel, interminable as it has been and tiresome as it must be to most people who do not either a) live in the region or b) think of it as a source of entertainment, remains an important challenge for American foreign policy. AM, you could always turn off comments when you feel a need to post about it.
President Reagan used to tell the story of a young psychiatrist, careworn and exhausted after listening to patient after patient share the troubles of life with him during their sessions, marvelling at a much older colleague who saw the same kind of patients and heard the same kind of troubles, yet was sunny and at peace with the world. "What's your secret?" asked the young psychiatrist. "Oh," said his colleague, "I never listen."
Zathras, Why is the
Zathras,
Why is the Israeli-Palestinian quarrel that important to American foreign policy?
You say "challenge". That could mean anything from "it gives over paid government employees something to do" to "the US will not survive another second with out it".
It is really about energy and energy is linked to growth. Just think, if the US did not get involved in the ME issues, we all could have been driving smaller cars a long time ago. Might even have developed alternate energy sources by now. Cheap oil in the '80s developed a lot of habits. Maybe UBL would have never turned on the US! The joke is, there was a lot of discussion of energy after the '70s oil embargo and all that discussion was forgotten. I laugh because 30 years later, the University that I graduated from is rediscovering research from that embargo era. For grins, I threw out an idea to a grad student about a spray on photovoltaic in 2008. His thing was flexible Silicon that had DARPA funding, we are not talking about tub caulk. The response, "that would be a great idea". Spray on photovoltaics are not that wild of an idea, it is about efficiency, it is something that was considered in the grad students own department in 1979. Really I avoid the University, figure going back about every 30 years is enough. For as much as they toot their horns as "being the best and brightest", I wonder what the hell they have been doing for 30 years. Those people are too full of themselves it hurts.
Some times I wonder what Washington has been doing in the past 30 years, other than collecting their salaries.
The world we live in today is a result of the bureaucrats in Washington selling, "it is better to spend a little today, than a lot tomorrow" .
One look at the American deficit will show us how wrong that argument is.
Too many things are sold on the concept of being "important". Why is it important and whose agenda is it?
PS. True diversity is embracing all arguments. The bone heads on our University pick and choose what suits them too. Like a spoiled child that wants to take his toys and play somewhere else.
You are all birds of a feather.
Israeli-Palestinian quarrel,
Israeli-Palestinian quarrel, short hand.
What it has become is an end looking for a means. It will happen someday, but people with too large of egos want to have their names associated with it.
It looks good in your presidential library.
.........It is a reoccurring cost that the US taxpayer should not be paying.
1. Impressed by how many of
1. Impressed by how many of the comments are in agreement with you.
2. How few are seeking to drag you into the drowning pool.
3. Listen to the laments of my Palestinian and Israeli friends and agree with both.
4. Am being honest, not disingenuous.
5. My inherent pessimism is bolstered by the daily news.
V/R JWest
Yep, wrote about this not so
Yep, wrote about this not so long ago - http://the-arid-zone.blogspot.com/2011/05/poisoned-nature-of-israeli-pal...
As an Irish guy in Tel Aviv studying the Middle East, there's not a hope of me going anywhere near the issue. I've been here almost a year now, and I feel drained just thinking about it.
@ JB - The Onion, as usual,
@ JB - The Onion, as usual, has covered this issue superbly from all angles:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/the-israeli-conflict-is-far-too-nuanced...
From Netanyahu's speech to
From Netanyahu's speech to the US Congress.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israeli-prime-minister-binyamin-neta...
Zathras, I believe it was you that spoke of the path of least resistance in the previous post. Netanyahu was only politically motivated in his discussion of defensible borders. The matter of defense is real and goes beyond politics.
from the ending of the speech....
.
So if Israel simply walked out of the territories, the flow of weapons into a future Palestinian state would be unchecked. And missiles fired from it could reach virtually every home in Israel in less than a minute.
.
I want you to think about that, too. Imagine there’s a siren going on now, and we have less than 60 seconds to find shelter from an incoming rocket.
.
Would you live that way? Do you think anybody can live that way?
.
Well, we’re not going to live that way, either.
.
The truth is that Israel needs unique security arrangements, because of its unique size. It’s one of the smallest countries in the world.
.
Mr. Vice President, I’ll grant you this: It’s bigger than Delaware.
.
It’s even bigger than Rhode Island. But that’s about it.
.
Israel on the 1967 lines would be half the width of the Washington Beltway.
I do not blame the Israelis for wanting as much buffer as possible. You could argue that different missle systems could also reach Israel from further away. As the distance increase, so does the cost of the systems required because the systems require guidance to be effective as the stand-off increases.
Over all, it was a good speech.
Not sure who set up the schedule. When Mexican President Felipe Calderon came to Washington to address the US Congress, Obama gave him a party on the WH lawn. For Israel, Obama left town.
Rude. That is political.
dont forget thats it is the 3
dont forget thats it is the 3 time bibi has invited himself, in a year. face it, israel pwns the us.
According to the news
According to the news services, Bibi was invited to speak to Congress by the Republicans.
Maybe Obama can invite the Palestinians to speak to Congress next.
Be interesting to hear the Palestinians talk about women's rights and Democracy like bibi did.
First, stop being a big
First, stop being a big ninny. Second, consider the sheer entertainment value of the response. A simmering pile of ignorance, poor grammar, and sexual frustration. One can well imagine the blood shot eye bulging through the earhole of the helmet their mothers make them wear as they jab away at their keyboards with one hand while smearing applesauce all over their face and bib overalls with the other. Great for a chuckle and a rueful shake of the head. You really should consider reconsidering.
Well, yeah, it takes some
Well, yeah, it takes some guts to write about this topic.
But when you let your mommy tell you not to write daily blog posts on the news or sit on TV panels anymore because you're afraid of mere words thrown at you on "the playground," what do you expect?
Israel had its say in
Israel had its say in Congress, Palestinians are on their way to the UN, and Obama is cooking up something for Libya.
Japan got earthquakes and Obama sent part of the Pacific Fleet. Haiti got earthquakes and Obama sent part of the USAF and did airlifts and facilitated the NGO's. Indonesia got earthquakes and H. Clinton flew over and dropped off a check for $25 Million. Libya civilians "might" have been killed and Obama sent in NATO, H Clinton gave them a check for $25 Million (she must have a rubber stamp cause that is what she gave Tunisia, and they wanted more ) and helped to get Libyan funding for $2 Billion more (One Billion of that support is money that the US will never get paid back, ever). Remind me again how much Libyan money is frozen right now by the US and how much gold Libya has, not to mention the 2% of world oil reserves. Does anyone in the US government know "who" the Libyan Rebels are?
Meanwhile, Americans are stuffing more GASOLINE dollars into ME pockets then ever before. Americans are educating Arabs in our US State Schools. Americans are feeding the children of Arabs. Americans are building more new schools and infrastructure in Arab countries then ever before. While America is educating more foreign nuclear scientists in South America, the US is paying existing Libyan nuclear professionals $2 Billion a year to keep them employed in Libya.
Guys, I am not against Arabs. I am against paying over $100 /barrel for Arab oil while paying for all this Arab foreign aid (ya ya I know, it is not all Arab Oil, how is Dubai and Saudi Arabia these days) ! The sales pitch was "spend a little now, save later". Foreign Aid is increasing with the cost of OIL. Sounds more like PAY MORE NOW, and PAY EVEN MORE LATER. How much of the TRILLION in war spending has gone into Iraq and Afghan owned bank accounts in Dubai? Is America still paying the salaries and equipment costs of the Afghan army and police and for how long? Why?
Jopin, MO gets blown off the map and Obama says, "I am busy playing ping pong, seeing my roots, and hanging in five star hotels, and I will see you Sunday". The whole south is impacted by the worst Tornado season in over 50 years and Obama gives them FEMA.
Illinois, Obama's home state (when he is not Hawaiian, Indonesian, from Kansas, Ireland, or Africa), has $140 Billion in underfunded pensions. Illinois just doubled the income tax on its citizens, sales tax is not far from 10%, the high real estate tax mostly goes to pay for teachers retirement and not education. The Corporate tax was increase by 42%. The state of Illinois, with all the tax increases included, is still spending $5 Billion more than it takes in. Dick Durbin is just a rubber stamp for Obama. Only future in Illinois is to move out of the state and let the Democrats pay for their own agenda.
I like that. Work all those years at a State College only to have to pay for your pension cause every one in the private sector left the state! Enjoy your retirements buck-a-ru. Six-figure salary retirement chech and a six figure tax bill to match.......and do not forget to add in a lot more for education and foreign aid spending. Working retirement on a six-figure salary !
So, Obama tells Israel to go back to 1967 borders, sends a letter to Congress to "support" not "approve" his attack on Libya only 60 short days into a "short" and "limited" war, and then skips town to make more Libyan war plans with NATO leaders before Congress even knows what they are voting on in Liyba.
Forget were Obama is from or where he was born, I think he gets confused on the subject.
Who is the US President? You know, the guy we pay to address "American issues".
PS....
Obama says, I can not cut state business short and run to take care of Americans impacted by storms.
Where the heck has BIDEN been for the last 2.5 years?????? In Moscow trying to work out the American budget. What a joker.
The American people, with its
The American people, with its immense interests in the region and up to its elbows in legacy involvement in the conflict, sadly do not have the luxury to "avoid" the issue like this blog gives itself. We're simply involved, a party to the disaster. It's as simple as that.
Andrew: I need a head exam
Andrew: I need a head exam because I am a young scholar who closely follows and enjoys policy work regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict.
I'm neither "a gun-toting, jack-booted Zionist pig" nor "an Islamist suicide-bombing anti-Semite".
If you want to see rational debate being applied to the peace process, check out my article:
http://www.policymic.com/beta/global-affairs/forget-67-israels-worry-sho...
So will my insurance cover the physical? :)
Soooo...fear of the
Soooo...fear of the potentiality of the old Roman argumentum ad hominem should drive the choice of endeavours? What the heck field does that leave exactly?
The solution is simple...
The solution is simple... ...we just need to gather a coalition mighty enough to enforce it.
Both sides have lost the moral high ground and therefore the right to occupy the land.
Clear them all out. Every single last momma-loving' person in Israel, Palestine, and just to be certain, the Golan Heights and the Sinai and a two-hundred mile area East into Jordan.
Migrate the people into two separate uninhabited areas at least 1500km apart.
Give their land to the Disney Corp, have them set up a gigantic theme park open to all religions to visit, only.
Call it HolyLand.
Problem solved.
Smeelgova Badger-thrower
http://therealnews.com/t2/ind
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&I...
Hobos Handbags Women Shoulder
Hobos Handbags
Women Shoulder Bags
Louis Vuitton Shoulder Bags
Cheap Men Shoes
Heritage Bags
Louis Vuitton Monogram Macassar Canvas
Louis Vuitton Utah Leather
Totes Magotes
Louis Vuitton Antheia
Louis Vuitton Jewelry
Louis Vuitton Leather
Louis Vuitton leather
Louis Vuitton Leather
Louis Vuitton Leather
Louis Vuitton Leather
Louis Vuitton Leather
Louis Vuitton Luggage
Louis Vuitton Luggage
Louis Vuitton Scarves
Louis Vuitton Wallets
Louis Vuitton Wallets
Top Handles
Louis Vuitton Top Handles
Louis Vuitton Canvas
Louis Vuitton Canvas
Louis Vuitton Canvas
Louis Vuitton Canvas
Louis Vuitton Canvas
Louis Vuitton Canvas
Louis Vuitton Damier
Louis Vuitton Damier
Louis Vuitton Damier
Louis Vuitton Damier
Louis Vuitton Ldylle
Louis Vuitton Mahina
Louis Vuitton Outlet
Louis Vuitton Purese
Louis Vuitton Suhali
Louis Vuitton Travel
Louis Vuitton Travel
Hobos Handbags Women Shoulder
Hobos Handbags
Women Shoulder Bags
Louis Vuitton Shoulder Bags
Cheap Men Shoes
Heritage Bags
Louis Vuitton Monogram Macassar Canvas
Louis Vuitton Utah Leather
Totes Magotes
Louis Vuitton Antheia
Louis Vuitton Jewelry
Louis Vuitton Leather
Louis Vuitton leather
Louis Vuitton Leather
Louis Vuitton Leather
Louis Vuitton Leather
Louis Vuitton Leather
Louis Vuitton Luggage
Louis Vuitton Luggage
Louis Vuitton Scarves
Louis Vuitton Wallets
Louis Vuitton Wallets
Top Handles
Louis Vuitton Top Handles
Louis Vuitton Canvas
Louis Vuitton Canvas
Louis Vuitton Canvas
Louis Vuitton Canvas
Louis Vuitton Canvas
Louis Vuitton Canvas
Louis Vuitton Damier
Louis Vuitton Damier
Louis Vuitton Damier
Louis Vuitton Damier
Louis Vuitton Ldylle
Louis Vuitton Mahina
Louis Vuitton Outlet
Louis Vuitton Purese
Louis Vuitton Suhali
Louis Vuitton Travel
Louis Vuitton Travel
An all 'round well thought
An all 'round well thought out piece...
I like this information and
I like this information and it has given me some sort of desire to have success for some reason, so thanks. Furthermore I'm definitely considering blogging these facts in my own blog!
That was a frankly incredible
That was a frankly incredible writing.
I will really love for you
I will really love for you for guests posting on www.cnas.org
תודה רבה על פיתוח מאמץ לדבר
תודה רבה על פיתוח מאמץ לדבר על זה, אני מרגיש מאוד על זה כמו ללמוד הרבה יותר על הנושא הזה. אם אפשרי, כפי שאתה להתמקצע, אתה מוכן לעדכן את דף האינטרנט שלך שיש הרבה הרבה יותר מידע? זה מועיל לי מאוד.
ובכן, זה הראשון שלי לבדוק את
ובכן, זה הראשון שלי לבדוק את הבלוג שלך! אנחנו קבוצה של מתנדבים החל יוזמה חדשה בקהילה האזורית נישה בדיוק את אותו הדבר. הבלוג שלך סיפק לנו מידע רב ערך לעבודה. עשית משימה נפלא!
הייתי צריך לרשום הודעה קצרה
הייתי צריך לרשום הודעה קצרה כדי לקנות תודה על כל הצעות פנטסטי אתה הצבת באתר זה. בדיקה באינטרנט ממושך בבית שלי יש לסיים את היום הוכר עם פרטים וטכניקות אמין לסחור עם חברי לעבודה. הייתי טוענים כי כמה מאיתנו באמת קוראים מזל ברצינות לגור במיקום חשוב עם אנשים מצוינים מספר די עם מצביעים תובנה.
הלו, זה באמת מעניין, תודה
הלו, זה באמת מעניין, תודה
Add your comment