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On Allies
I have been away from the blog this week because I am in Finland at the invitation of our embassy here and will next be traveling to Norway. Over the past few days, I have been speaking with local think tanks in Helsinki as well as leading roundtable discussions on everything from Afghanistan to the Arab Spring with Finnish parliamentarians, local diplomats from other allies countries, and representatives from Finland's Ministry of Defense. I will do more of the same in Oslo. When the embassies here in Scandinavia asked me to visit in exchange for a plane ticket and small per diem to cover my expenses, I jumped at the chance. I have worked with Finns and Norwegians in Afghanistan but have have never visited either country. It's important for Americans, I believe, to show our appreciation for our friends and allies in the international community, because we rely on those allies to get things done, and many of our allies have fought and bled alongside U.S. soldiers and Marines from Normandy to Basra.
On the way here, though, I read a transcript of Gov. Rick Perry's recent speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars. I respect the fact that Gov. Perry has little foreign policy experience on account of his long political career in Texas, and I do not expect him to yet be as savvy or as wise an observer of international affairs as his fellow Aggies Ryan Crocker or Bob Gates. My head dropped in anguish, though, when I read this:
We respect our allies, and must always seek to engage them in military missions. At the same time, we must be willing to act when it is time to act. We cannot concede the moral authority of our nation to multi-lateral debating societies. And when our interests are threatened, American soldiers should be led by American commanders.
To the best of my knowledge, U.S. soldiers and Marines have served under the command of Dutch, Italian, Canadian, German and British commanders in Afghanistan. (I'm sure I could add more countries to the list.) Several countries have sacrificed mightily in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and I myself fought under a Canadian battalion commander in 2002 in Afghanistan and under a British special operations commander in 2003 in Iraq. Most of our allies -- and especially our friends in the ANZUS Pact, the 60th anniversary of which we just celebrated -- are as blunt-speaking as any Texan and would have rather preferred Gov. Perry come right out and insult them to their faces rather than obliquely insult them while professing to respect them.
I'm actually shocked that Gov. Perry's foreign policy advisors allowed this text to make it into his speech, but I can see how this jingoistic populism might prove politically effective in the battle for the Republican nomination. What might make for short-term political gains, though, also amounts to bad long-term foreign policy.
Gov. Perry's defenders will argue most Americans do not care about foreign affairs, and I somehow doubt Gov. Perry cares whether or not members of the Council on Foreign Relations will vote for him anyway. But this isn't about politics: as important as getting elected president is displaying the temperament and intelligence to be a good president once elected. And Gov. Perry may dismiss the United Nations, but our allies do not. (Don't believe me? Go ask any Israeli what "September" means to them and why their prime minister has been asking our president to scurry around asking for votes from our European allies of late.)
If any foreign policy advisor to Gov. Perry is reading this, I would recommend them schedule a trip for the governor to Japan, Australia and South Korea -- just three of the allies on which the United States will depend over the next eight years. He should take the time to hear their concerns and listen to the way in which they have each served alongside and supported the United States. He should then take a trip to Afghanistan, where U.S. soldiers serve with and under troops from over 40 foreign countries (including the Marine Corps!).
Because some of us egg-head multilateralists are also lifetime members of the Veterans of Foreign Wars and understand both the skill and sacrifice with which our allies have helped us meet the challenges of the past ten years. Gov. Perry should too, because, again, as important as populist rhetoric is to winning president elections, so too is temperament and experience to being a good president once elected.
I have joked before, quoting a certain retired Marine colonel, that the only strategic lesson we have learned from our experiences in Vietnam and Iraq is not to elect Texans president. But the best Americans I know are Texan. I have a friend from San Antonio, for example, who I admire above nearly all other non-Tennesseans on Earth: he is smart, humble, God-fearing, knows frightful amounts about guns and hunting, and is the kind of guy who will grab a bottle of Buffalo Trace, pour you a glass, and sit around the campfire talking about everything from Jesus Christ to Cormac McCarthy to Townes Van Zandt. He is the best kind of Texan -- and American. The worst Americans, though, are also Texans: they are loud, prone to bragging at length and volume, ignorant and intolerant of others, and indulge in a kind of Little America-ism that makes our country less welcoming and more provincial. (They also get Tennessee into wars with Mexico, but that is another matter.) I can vote for the former, of course, but not for the latter. I'll reserve judgment, for now, about which one Gov. Perry is.
Perhaps he was referring to
Perhaps he was referring to operation Overlord...
We respect our allies, and
We respect our allies, and must always seek to engage them in military missions. At the same time, we must be willing to act when it is time to act. We cannot concede the moral authority of our nation to multi-lateral debating societies. And when our interests are threatened, American soldiers should be led by American commanders.
Exum, I really do not see a difference between what Perry and any other President has said. Remember that Obama went into Libya with a lot lesser mult-lateral backing than Mr. Texan did after 9/11. It is all about the talking points in the statement. Take a look at Obama's ratings, he is not doing so hot as a President these days. During his rise, he said a lot that made him a rock star that got him the office.
First Perry indicates respect for our allies. This is what you are asking for too.
Second Perry wants to protect American interests. Hope you do also.
Third, I will take a line from guy from Arkansas, what is the definition of "moral authority". Think you also would want to set the example for what is best.
Forth, what are America's interests? For me that is the homeland. Are you going to lead from the back seat if someone is threatening your home?
Think you need to ask Perry what he meant by his statement before you go off half cocked.
Frankly, I am getting really tired of America being in the WAR OF THE MONTH club. People these days are calling for multlateral actions (ie Libya) that really are out side of American "interests". Might be good medicine to limit using US troops to that which threatens our homeland directly which would make Perry's statements right on.
Using US troops should he the option of last resort. (ie like never, we have gotten to D*** use to committing resources)
BTW....Has Hillary arranged for the UN to send a peace keeping force to Libya to save her butt? Sort of sounds like the R-boys are a little trigger happy these days. These guys have fought and gave blood, lived under Gadhafi's rule for the past 40 odd years, you think they are going to hold hands and sing around the campfire like Hillary wants them too? Shoot if Hillary doesn't give them the money that is locked up by the US, Libya can just pump oil and sell off the gold to China.
Maybe Perry was think about
Maybe Perry was think about the the next 4 Trillion dollar war that America can not afford.
Recent memory? Arab League would have walked on the 3 B's if America was a major leader in the Nato force that is enforcing the NFZ.
Arabs did not trust the Europeans, that is on record.
Excellent post as always--
Excellent post as always-- particularly the last paragraph, which I'll definitely be quoting to friends sometime in the near future. As a native Texan currently residing in D.C. who has lived under several years of Rick Perry as governor, I of course respect your right to make up your own mind about Governor Perry-- that said, based off of my experiences with him, he is most definitely the latter kind of Texan. I'm not huge fan of President Obama's foreign policy (Libya being a case in point), but based off of the people Perry's surrounding himself with (as well as his bombastic record in Texas politics), I think the foreign policy of a Perry administration would be disastrous.
The obame reelection ca paint
The obame reelection ca paint thanks you for your support Mr. Exum. We get it, you are a Democrat and a Obama supporter. This post is a hamfisted attempt to attack Perry. Obama's Libya policy had less international support than Bush did with Iraq and his administration deceitfully exceeded the UN resolution beyond "protecting civilians". the main reason the Obama administration never were open and honest about their goals in Libya was because they were fundamentally about regeim change. They were cognizant about how similar this was too Iraq.
Perry also has a point about about "multilateral bodies" which Obama went to first without ever consulting the US Congress. Do you prefer that path to war Mr. Exum?
I will stay out of the cheesy Texan talk.
Your head dropped in anguish?
Your head dropped in anguish? Really?
It's remarkable to me how some Americans who think of themselves, and write about themselves at length and in detail as men of affairs and of the world, approach first-time candidates for President as if these candidates were blank slates -- men or women of whom nothing can be known until they choose to reveal it themselves in the course of the campaign. Rick Perry is not a particularly mysterious man. Moreover, he's been in politics for most of his adult life, which means that most of his adult life is available for scrutiny somewhere on the public record. It's true that Texas is a weak-governor state, but it is also the second-largest in the Union, and Perry has been governor there for over ten years.
The point is that anguish implies surprise, and there isn't much reason for it. Perry is manifestly ignorant of foreign and national security affairs. His insufferably bromide-laden speech at the VFW was certainly a token of that, but nothing more. He will campaign on his ignorance, rightly confident that some voters will see it as proof of his authenticity. There's nothing to reserve judgement about here.
Sounds like someone is
Sounds like someone is concerned that Obama will not get a second term.
If foreign policy is soooo important in this 2012 election, why is Obama tripping over himself to be finally present in the United States.
The guy has been AWOL. Now he cares about US?
Hehey. Will you be speaking
Hehey. Will you be speaking publicly in Norway?
If youre in Oslo on Saturday, SHonen Knife are playing at Cafe Mono...
Welcome to Norway later on,
Welcome to Norway later on, sir!
As a participant in national debates on Norwegian participation in Afghanistan, I can attest to the general point that Norwegians are generally hostile to participation if they feel the US acts unilaterally. The strongest arguments against a Norwegian presence in Afghanistan is the unilateralness of Iraq and the degree to which the operation in Afghanistan is just serving US interests. Countless media reports discuss how the US troops are doing aggressive operations to serve the US' own ends instead of securing peace and stability for the Afghan people.
Now, Norway is not large, but on a per capita basis we actually have a very large number of soldiers in Afghanistan. I would argue that they would have been repatriated now, had not the unilateralness of the Bush administration come to an end with Obama.
Norwegian: You have to add
Norwegian: You have to add the point that the military question has been effectively put out of the political process here, since our left-side former opposition party is part of the government alliance and so has kept schtum about the whole operation. About 50% of the population "wants the soldiers home" but not one single elected representative. Add to this the almost clinical scrubbing of any operational details from our side (how many articles on FSK and the Jaegers during the initial occupation have you seen?) from the media, and it is sort of like the war does not exist except for when we recieve casualties. In the media, Norway looks like traditional blue-helmet peacekeepers, very little is written about the actual operational enviroment.
The real issue now is however how we adapt to the post-AFghan enviroment. Do we start rebuilding a national defense, or do we put our trust in remaining inside the component-based NATO where we provide just a couple of segments to tyhe larger US based NATO machine? Is NATO a trustworthy deterrent if, say, Russia in a national-bolshevik coup decides to take Finmark and the northern waters? Currently, we have enough available manpower to defend a small part of Oslo in a regular war.
>To the best of my knowledge,
>To the best of my knowledge, U.S. soldiers and Marines have served under the command of Dutch, Italian, Canadian, German and British commanders in Afghanistan.
I've been wondering about the secret of our success here. That must be it.
>Several countries have sacrificed mightily in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and I myself fought under a Canadian battalion commander in 2002 in Afghanistan and under a British special operations commander in 2003 in Iraq.
Yeah, well, I'm fairly aware of the contribution of the British high command to Iraq. No disrespect to the squaddies and troopers and all, but the Brit generals made Basra a festering sore, cut deals with the JAM to make the place a safe haven in exchange for abstaining from attacks against their base, then paraded around proudly going "see, Yanks? THAT'S how one does COIN." Finally, Maliki-fucking MALIKI-got sick of it and sent his retards down there, and they had the place cleaned up in like a week. When you suck so bad that you make OUR efforts-no, scratch that-when you make the Iraqis look good in comparison, it's time to send you home. Thanks for playing. Appreciate the mighty sacrifices, now GTFO.
And don't let me get into the awesome contribution made by the Poles to Diwaniyyah. Their fucking CG went home and got put on trial for cutting a deal with JAM where he got a payoff for every truck going into town. Not surprisingly, Diwo was another necrotic abscess, where CF couldn't go two blocks without getting shot up, and God help you if you were an Iraqi suspected of collaborating with GOI or CF-the JAM was hanging motherfuckers off gas pumps in broad daylight two klicks away from a giant base full of our valiant allies! Again, it took the GOI flooding the area with IA and IP to make everything calm down. When your efforts pale in comparison to those of the Iraqi Retard Brigades, it's time to start re-evaluating your worth.
Again, don't get me wrong-our allies' troops include plenty of pipe hitters. But we don't have any shortage of pipe hitters ourselves. Given the numerically small contribution by everyone except for the Brits, who punched way below their weight as seen above, there's only one conclusion I can make-the main function of our allies is symbolic, to make it look like our bullshit efforts are coalition-based instead of being unilateral. But, dude, this is such a sham than nobody buys it anyway. EVERYBODY knows Afghanistan is our shit, and Norway, Italy, Spain et al are just kind of hanging out.
So, what are we getting in exchange for whatever we're bribing our allies with this month (I presume they're not jumping on the bandwagon strictly out of good will, right?) Nada.
>If any foreign policy advisor to Gov. Perry is reading this, I would recommend them schedule a trip for the governor to Japan, Australia and South Korea -- just three of the allies on which the United States will depend over the next eight years.
WTF are we gonna depend on them for? Our strategic supplies of whale sashimi, kimchi and kangaroo steak? Seriously, dude, it's not the Cold War anymore. South Korea has their neighbors on lock, regardless of what we do or do not do. Japan and Oz-they're doing their own thing. What, we need them to counterbalance our best frenemy, China? Come on. We're the ones propping China up with our dollars and training all their cadres in our schools.
B: Cant speak for the rest of
B: Cant speak for the rest of em, but with regards to Norway, thats just plain bullshit. Our contribution to Afghanistan has been pretty kinetic, ever since we went in. You can split it in three parts: The logistic and political part, the occupation part up in north and the Mountain-jaeger/SF part wich has been pretty hectic.
But hey, good by me, I wish us the fck out of US clusterfcks as well where we have to follow some numbskull grand strategy cooked up by some idiot with an attentionspan of a gnat and a feeling of omnipotence because "USA RAWKS! USA! USA!" and all that bullshit. Iraq was a clusterfck, agreed, and us norse stayed out of it (almost). We sort of thought that maybe we should focus on this mountain country we had just occupied, you know. But noooo.
East is East and West is West and as far as Im concerned, heres to hoping that the twain shall meet as little as possible in situations like this again. Heres to hoping for a permanent end to NATOs Out Of Area doctrine.
(shrug)
(shrug) Poh-tay-toh-poh-tah-toe
The theater commanders were American, the force commanders were American; just because you can find instances at some (of many levels) of command, does not invalidate the point that at the highest operational level, they were under US control.
And as far as distrusting allies goes, nothing compares to keeping CSTC-A around because only Americans can control the money.
The very last part (americans
The very last part (americans leading americans) is bad form considering our current NATO operations but the rest is spot on.
It's a post cold world. The idea that such a large economy and population as ours needs to behave like a tiny country is absurd. I don't think the israelis are so fond of the un really and historically india hasn't been a fan until her elites we seduced by western elites into thinking. That a great power needs to follow the kleptocrats at the un. Job security for dc meddlers!
Texas is a popular place for internal us migration, blue state to red state. When I was in Boston, the best docs were being recruited south. Texas school reportedly have more physician prize winners now. Jobs and tort reform and all that...
Both r and l scare me foreign policy wise - stupid meddlers. Stay out, dod, cia, state, unless really necessary and not just to create dc jobs....state should be just a foriegn office, cia dismantled into 'oss', and dod back into war office. The old post war institutions do not work.
and I myself fought under a
and I myself fought under a Canadian battalion commander in 2002 in Afghanistan and under a British special operations commander in 2003 in Iraq. Most of our allies
Dr. Exum, I didn't know that you appreciated my efforts so much. From what you have said, it looks like Iraq was truly multilateral despite what my critiques have said. I know that you are a Republican at heart.
Mission Accomplished, I myself and Texas thanks you for the compliment.
Lots of mistakes above, I
Lots of mistakes above, I meant post cold war world, etc. Our allies like the aussies and japan r great but we don't need grand alliances. Just work together when interests align or stay out.
Exum, you trash talk on
Exum, you trash talk on Perry. Perry has not even got to the office to perform Foreign Policy.
Obama is DOING FP. How is HE doing?
Isreal? Any progress? I see lots of progress on housing.
Libya? Only about 30% of the world population was behind it. Germany, Russia, and China sat it out.
Afghanistan? What are Americans really getting for what Obama calls an INVESTMENT? F**** twenty more years of 2-3 Billion more dollars a year in INVESTMENTS. How's the Chinese doing with that valley and its copper mining operation? Americans going to get anything out of the raw materials sitting at China's back door? Didn't American pay in blood?
Pakistan? Let me guess, they want more money cause Obama pissed them off about UBL.
Europe? Like they are going to say no. Obama's Bernanke (yes, Obama had a chance to change that) has floated over a TRILLION in US taxpayer backed Federal Reserve loans to European Banks (WTF is the that about). Provided Europe with military protection. US pays the lion share of both NATO and UN budgets. Think Europe is going to complain? OK, the French will complain what else is new.
Africa? It really does not take much. Sudan is F'ed up and that will be a money sink while China gets the oil. Somalia wants food, we got lots and lot of Blackhawk Helicopters.
ME in general? I do not see improvements. They are getting rid of their leaders are they really any better off? Without good economies the people are just going to keep blaming someone. Hillary suggested that American companies move into Iraq to spur their economies. Yah, right. Are the US companies going to pay corporate taxes for all the military protection they will need?
Russia? I still think of Hillary running around with that stupid "reset button" like she was shopping for office supplies are something. Not really sure that the Russians were impressed.
Japan? Sure that Japan will not complain, they got more AID than New England Hurricane damage will ever see. Americans get a few US Navy boats and Obama sends Japan an entire F'ing FLEET.
Indonesia? Think they are waiting for Obama to make a speech again. Every time Obama shows up so does Hillary with a $25M check.
India? Dang business is good. Thank you Mr. President for the GE military technology. Now we can make our own military jets and tell Boeing to go to HE double hockey sticks.
N.Korea? Sure that the Japanese are not just reading background radiation levels?
IRAN? Another source of Japanese background radiation.
Mexico? Obama had a State party for Calderon. America was sinking into recession, Americans were loosing jobs by the millions going on unemployment, Obama was kind enough to show Americans what was on the State Dinner menu. Everything that was not going to be on the plates of the Black Americans that sent you those checks for your 2008 election Mr President. BTW, what is it like to live at $50,000/wk beach front home on the Vineyard? Even let Calderon tell Congress how bad they are to let Americans have Second Amendment rights. All that while Eric Holder and company cooked up a plan to force Federally Licensed Firearms dealers to let straw man purchases happen. Like the FFL holders are going to tell the BATF who approves their license NO. The FFL holders have their retirement money wrapped up in their business. Eric Holder turns around and loses all the firearms that the ATF let walk. If you ask me, while Calderon was talking to Congress someone in Washington was pushing the statistics to justify more 2nd Amendment restrictions. How's the drug war? Hows Illegal immigration?
South America? Chilean nuclear engineers thank you for the training Obama. The US government paid millions to put Foreign National NUKE scientists in Libya on the US pay roll to give them something to do. Obama turns around and gives up US tax dollars to TRAIN Chilean Nuclear Engineers, while Obama dodges Congress on WAR POWERS. Like the world need more foreign nuclear engineers on the US payroll (we are a global society, why not give the Chilean government the resumes of the Libyan scientists?). Americans are out of work, WTF? Brazil does not need help, they got oil reserves that Obama is going to give them money to develop so they can sell the US oil for over $100/barrel. Columbia is getting lots and lots of US AID, has been for a long time hard to make them unhappy. Has Obama made Ecuador happy? No.
Then there is CHINA.......Obama has pushed American debt so high, the Chinese own the US. Ain't it just ducky that Americans get to keep spending BILLIONS and BILLIONS in interest alone to the Chinese so that Americans can buy CHEAP PRODUCTS at WALMART. One of these day, Americans will figure out why they are working at McDonalds flipping burgers to keep China in interest money.
Obama's idea of FP is writing more checks. Buying loyalty, one country at a time.
Jokes on the US guys and Obama is not making it better. Time for a change.
If Perry is giving out source material, Obama is living in a house of glass.
Cheers.
ObamaFP: WOrst is, youre
ObamaFP: WOrst is, youre right. And even worse, Perry will be even worse. Ready for the big rumble with Iran? The man is a truebeliever apocalyptic, fer crying out loud. Dumb and dumber, or rather the company guy (Obama) vs. the big dildo from Texas (Perry). Take your pick: The War Party or the Apocalypse Party. Aint democracy grand?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiHy0iYyZFk&feature=related
Fnord, you've got to pick a
Fnord, you've got to pick a side of the fence. Are you proud of your country being our sockpuppet in Afghanistan, or do you want to GTFO? Or do you want the street cred of "yeah, we're part of the global community, at war with terrorists" without the actual responsibility of potential failure falling on your shoulders? Come on.
This is an awful lot of bullshit to go through over a battalion's worth of guys and four fighter planes, spread over a place the size of Texas with a 30 million-strong population. And getting all pissy because some guy who's running for President might not kiss your ass enough over this symbolic contribution is just silly.
I could see it if this was a battalion of Ragnar-type, Viking battleaxe-swinging, Rurikid-dynasty-establishing dudes, but I bet they're as ineffectual, on average, as our guys-or even more. And we don't have to kiss anybody's ass outside the US to get our guys to keep deploying!
Perry once threatened Texas'
Perry once threatened Texas' secession, and now he wants to be President of the United States?--the 16th of which was responsible for bringing the Union back together. Now, imagine that middle finger attitude on the world stage...
*Texas's--excuse my poor
*Texas's--excuse my poor grammar, I'm just from Texas
Fnord on September 2, 2011 -
Fnord on September 2, 2011 - 10:34am
Thank you and your country for your contribution in Afghanistan. I am not trying to down play any countries efforts.
It is just that my American pocket book is just plain wore out.
Unfortunately, the way that America does FP is a little like a circle jerk, we tend to make our own problems so we can go back and fix them. Usually it means throwing money at bad money. It gets really old.
Obama came into office and blamed everything on Bush. OK fine. Bush made some real bozo mistakes. Three years later, Obama is still blaming Bush. Sorry, Obama owns it. Finger pointing only works the first couple years.
Right now Obama is re-living the past. He talks out of both sides of his mouth, putting everyone in the picture, and really no one is in the picture except his party. When he came into office it was jobs, roads, and green energy. Now all of a sudden Obama is recreating jobs, roads, and green energy like no one paid attention to his last speech. Nothing moves domestically cause he spent most of his time in office traveling somewhere other than the US. Now all of a sudden Americans are the most important thing on his agenda. I wonder why. MR. DINGBAT is just trying to buy time, staying out of the country to get out of the lime light.
I would like the frequent flier miles from Obama and Hillary. Really like to see the cost to Americans for their airfares, hotel, food, and security cost. That is kept classified. Per the recent Paris pictures, Hillary's food and life style is agreeing with her.
Case in point, Circle Jerk Policy.
Libya.
Obama pours money in. Between Arab countries helping with ARMS. CIA helping too. Gadhafi's stock piles opening up. All those ARMS coming on the market all a once. First there was a shortage, now everyone has an AK. Libya has a shipping port. Who needs ARMS???? Syria has shipping ports. Gaza has shipping ports. AQ is next door to Libya in Algeria, they have a land bridge. Niger is to the south. Sudan? Somalia? Put that stuff on a boat and it can be a trip across the Atlantic. If Columbia can ship ten tons of cocaine to MALI and points beyond, tens tons of cargo back pays for JET A. Who needs guns from the US in Mexico when you can get RPGs and MANPADS from Libya! Crap the R-boys were lighting off TNT to celebrate Tripoli, if they got that much, they can share ! Point is Obama got us pregnant, how much is the abortion going to be?
Perry's idea of FP might well be worse. Then again, if IRAN does happen maybe it will not take TEN F'ing years. Like Vietnam and Afghanistan.
Soviets thought that Reagan was a little touched. We know what happened to the Soviets.
Folks that want to be President tend to be a little different.
@B. I realize you enjoy
@B.
I realize you enjoy ragging the Brits on cutting deals with the JAM and Fadila in Basra but aren't you ignoring the uncomfortable fact that the US handed control of the central government and its' most effective institutions to Iranian-created, religious-fundamentalist, political parties and their militia's? Not to mention the Kurdish parties and their Peshmerga - all there with the blessing of Tehran.
You know, setting the stage for a brutal civil war is really nothing to be proud of.
really?
really?
on the lighter side - the Red
on the lighter side - the Red Rascal cashes in...
http://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/2011/09/02
Money line - the lathered haunches of his loyal steed Petreaus... LMAO.
Dr Exum, Yes our Grand
Dr Exum,
Yes our Grand Alliances and Coalitions. Yep. Meh. Sorry, you missed the Cold War, WW2, etc....but enjoy the DC Bubble while it lasts. DC - a nation unto itself, over the nation it plunders and impoverishes. In the entirely plausible scenario that you are overseas when the magic Fiat Dollar bubble pops, you may want to consider holding off rushing back home. If you miss your friends don't worry - they'll be headed your way as refugees. Some of them anyway.
The Perry excerpt has been standard US Pol boilerplate for....ever... even if we sometimes are under foreign Command.
While you're in Europe please be sure to remind them of "no blood for oil" in context of Libya. Not that I think it's a bad thing at all that they are still capable of a little (assisted) neo-colonialism.
Does the "New American" part
Does the "New American" part in Center for a New American Security mean no more Republicans and outsourcing our national security to ineffective international military organizations that are more interested in income redistribution than they are in accomplishing a mission? Great of you to stick up for foreigners while insulting Texans.
I have a hard time taking this website seriously.
Why DC - itities need to
Why DC - itities need to think about Perry Twice...
1. Someone else WILL be your new Boss
2. because he can run a political railroad, Preppy can't...
"The glimpse we got of that on Wednesday gives his supporters every reason to fear that his re-election campaign will resemble his triumphant 2008 bid about as much as the bumbling White House of the first President Bush resembled the extraordinarily accomplished White House of Ronald Reagan."
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/the_white_house_mess...
B- Why do the British get
B- Why do the British get criticized for paying the JAM members and giving militias jobs in the police when that's exactly what the Anbar awakening was. They were criticized for doing something very similar to what the US forces would do a year later, only on a smaller scale. Their paying their former enemies was also preceded by a large scale operation in Basra to try and beat the JAM, which should sound a lot like Op Together Forward in Baghdad bc it is basically the same thing. They went all in, it didn't work, then they gave hand outs/bribes, much like us.
Also if you want to talk about countries that are punching above their weight in A'stan you can't leave out The Danes, there's a good movie (documentary?) about an outpost in Helmand with Danish soldiers called Armadillo.
Steve, Yeah, no, I
Steve,
Yeah, no, I understand we're fuckasses. When years of blood and money wasted gets you Maliki, there's something very wrong going on. And Maliki actually looks GOOD compared to what we're about to get for our troubles in Afghanistan. However, I would like to see us eventually unfuck ourselves, and one of the things we're gonna have to do is to own our wars. The only strategic function our allies serve is to maintain the polite fiction that Afghanistan is anything but totally and completely our thing. And what price do we pay for that? Well, aside from things like Diwo, Basra, the North of Afghanistan becoming, incomprehensibly, a place the Taliban can operate, Helmand before the Marines took it over, etc., our politicians somehow have to kiss the asses of our allies for this privilege. Are you kidding me?
BTW, "religious-fundamentalist, political parties" are the only kind you're gonna get in the burning trash dump that is Iraq, or, for that matter, the majority of the Muslim world when you have popular government. I mean, aside from our sockpuppets, and even they're gonna have to be religious and fundamentalist to achieve any respect at all. Obviously, the only way to provide an actual human living standard to the majority of the population would be an apolitical colonial government with a mixed personnel structure, but that would mean actually having some sense of national responsibility for our wars.
Matteo-seriously? You don't see the difference between cutting a deal with the local thuglets that has them bird-dogging for us and killing AQIZ with our support vs. cutting a deal with JAM leadership that leaves the Brits stuck on base, lit up every time they poke their nose our, and the city as a safe haven for the JAM? Yeah, a deal is involved in both scenarios-that's where the similarity ends.
Again, I'm not saying some of the allies aren't pipe hitters on the ground level. The Brits fought like demons in Helmand, for instance. I'm saying that our reliance on allies is born of the fact that we don't want to take responsibility for what is totally our shit, that they definitely don't want any responsibility for it, and that this irresponsibility is what's losing us the war.
B on September 3, 2011 -
B on September 3, 2011 - 1:51am
I'm saying that our reliance on allies is born of the fact that we don't want to take responsibility for what is totally our shit, that they definitely don't want any responsibility for it, and that this irresponsibility is what's losing us the war.
Think you are getting to the root of the problem. We have peeled the onion.
War use to be what happened when ALL diplomacy failed. Now war IS diplomacy. Especially when we justify war for humanitarian reasons which is really nothing more than playing cops and robbers.
.
When war is truly the last resort, when ALL diplomacy fails, the people that are involved have clear vision. Right and wrong are clearly distinguished.
When war is diplomacy and not the last resort, politics prevail. Right and wrong become shades of grey. People die for a protocol that has a weighted morality, it does fit into our normal value system. People who lose friends no longer understand because the ultimate sacrifice within a normal value system means that value system has to be re-enforced. Death is meaningless otherwise. People are used for a political agenda that is not universal to the population. War becomes confusing and those involved are mentally impacted due to the stress it creates from a broken value system.
Collecting Allies amplifies your position. It can also mean that you make to many compromises to your cause.
How directed the alliance is, is a good measure of how right your cause IS.
How important your cause is can be measured by who is left at the Shopping Mall.
After 9/11, the world was polarized and the cause was common. That is a hard thing to keep pulled together because priorities change quickly.
How long an alliance can be held and what role each member plays must be considered to declare war.
Wars should not happen very often, the drain on treasury is too great and "the right cause" that is a universal motivator is a rare event. Progress must be measurable to give positive feedback to support the common value system.
People involved all have to have some skin in the game, especially the power brokers. If you have a golden parachute you should not be leading. There is no skin in a $400,000/yr retirement and a house at the Vineyard, you have a place to hang your Peace Prize.
Iraq and Afghanistan started out right with 9/11 somewhere a long the way, it just became something to do. The end game and strategy kept changing to justify why people were dieing.
Perry is closer to the truth as long as he means it.
Politicians are the first to use people. It is how they do their job.
BTW...... Think their might
BTW......
Think their might be one reason that Perry interests me.
Washington has become a town of people who do not want to rock the boat. They are comfortable with their position so they speak in ways that can not impact their re-election. Their jobs, retirement, and political supporters all the things that define them, come before Country. They are in a pickle cause the Country is focused on them, there is no room to hide in words so gridlock is their last comfort zone.
There is entertainment value in Perry.
Obama could not have defined himself better when he scolded Perry for speaking his mind. Think the quote goes, "When you come to Washington you have to speak in a certain way". AKA, you become Washington.
The only CHANGE I see in Obama's tenure, is he has fine tuned his message.
An art form of being opaque and obtuse.
".....our reliance on allies
".....our reliance on allies is born of the fact that we don't want to take responsibility for what is totally our shit, that they definitely don't want any responsibility for it, and that this irresponsibility is what's losing us the war."
B:
I agree with this right up to the point where you say that it's losing the war for the United States.
As One Happy Planet references above, modern war for our societies is not about winning or losing the war (or even having a sensible or valid reason for prosecuting war in the first place), it's about surviving the next electoral cycle. That's as true for the US as it is for the rest of the allies - whose populations have wanted out for a very long time. It's their alliance with the United States that's keeping them in and the political classes of these countries are having an increasingly difficult time persuading their electorates that such an alliance is actually worth having.
That's where they stand. The US has an additional problem in that there are too many powerful business interests - the paymasters of the political classes - who very much demand the US remain in these wars. That is very much a peculiarity of American politics and until you guys show no sign whatsoever of addressing that issue.
The Europeans did not join that rush to Afghanistan to be there fighting a war a decade on. They went to provide a secure environment within which political and social development could take place. That has not happened and the desire of elements of the American contingent to continue prosecuting beyond its March 2002 sell-by date assured that it would not happen.
I'm all for the US to be left holding this mess, I'm just very sad that the Afghans - whose hopes for the future were irresponsibly raised by all of our empty rhetoric - will be once again thrown over a cliff.
Obama should hire Christian
Obama should hire Christian Louboutin to take care of finances. They would probably much better off.
>I agree with this right up
>I agree with this right up to the point where you say that it's losing the war for the United States.
Having just visited the Kandahar PX, which looks like a welfare distribution center/strip mall stateside, I can tell you that what's primarily losing the war for us is the fact that we are not taking it seriously as a war. A political stage prop, a career enhancement opportunity, a way to make money or to redistribute patronage spoils, sure. A war, no. If that's not irresponsible, I don't know what is. The"coalition" aspect is part of the war's usefulness as a foreign policy stage prop. And people who fight a war like this don't deserve to win.
>The US has an additional problem in that there are too many powerful business interests - the paymasters of the political classes - who very much demand the US remain in these wars.
Yes, I've noticed Soros and Buffett campaigning for us to keep our boys fighting. Seriously?
>The Europeans did not join that rush to Afghanistan to be there fighting a war a decade on. They went to provide a secure environment within which political and social development could take place.
See? Feygeles. And obviously, the Europeans we're talking about are the political classes of Europe, not their Joe Snuffies, who went to Afghanistan to have adventures and shoot people in the face, as one does. "Provide a security environment within which"...holy shit. "Oh, Mr. Taliban, could you stop shooting at me? I'm just here to provide a security environment within which political and social development can take place..."
When the Huns show up, you guys are gonna be lunchmeat.
>I'm just very sad that the Afghans - whose hopes for the future were irresponsibly raised by all of our empty rhetoric - will be once again thrown over a cliff.
Well, don't be too heartbroken-the Afghans I know are not the noble and naive savages you seem to be envisioning, and were never stupid enough to fall for our (and your!) bullshit. Their future will be exactly what it's always been-they'll raise their sheep and crops, build mud huts, fight each other and make little Afghans. And that's the way they like it, best as I can tell. Contrary to the New York Times (or the Guardian,) none of them except the rice Christians ever went "oooh, America! Now we'll have DEMOCRACY, and a Federal Reserve, and women's rights, and secular government, and, and, and Beyonce concerts! The future looks great!" Sorry to disappoint.
B on September 4, 2011 -
B on September 4, 2011 - 12:41am
Having just visited the Kandahar PX, which looks like a welfare distribution center/strip mall stateside, I can tell you that what's primarily losing the war for us is the fact that we are not taking it seriously as a war. A political stage prop, a career enhancement opportunity, a way to make money or to redistribute patronage spoils, sure. A war, no. If that's not irresponsible, I don't know what is. The"coalition" aspect is part of the war's usefulness as a foreign policy stage prop. And people who fight a war like this don't deserve to win.
B, that is what happens when war just becomes something to do. The horror of war wears off. If the US is building Shopping Malls in Afghanistan, we have been there too long! Addressing terrorism is important, but AQ is wagging the dog. American leaders brought us here, security spending is not justified. The spending has become economic stimulus. America needs to get a backbone. Problems is America's liability law has gotten politicians so scared, they do not want anything to happen on their watch. It will end their career. AQ knows that.
B, your right. The Afghans will just go back to what Afghans do. They have been doing it for a long time. What is happening today is just a detour. That is what happened in Vietnam. Personally, I think the Afghan people in the hinterlands would make good Republicans.
Why would anyone in their right mind would want to scratch in the earth all day and clean up goat poop just to pay taxes for Kabul's lifestyle (trip to the Vineyard, with the rich and famous).
This saving the world stuff and throwing people off a cliff is a bunch of BS. If people in Afghanistan want an American lifestyle them let the build their own schools and start their own business. Otherwise let them be happy in what they like to do. Crap, Americans are pushing Democracy and we cram our lifestyle down their throats.
On a different subject.
More Circle Jerk Policy
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_NKOREA_US_AID?SITE=AP&SECTION=...
A cargo plane loaded with $900,000 worth of food, medical aid, soap, blankets and cooking kits from the United States touched down at Pyongyang's Sunan airport late Saturday, according to footage from the Associated Press Television News from the North Korean capital.
The solution to N.Korean is China. US does not want to piss off China cause 1) they finance our debt and 2) someone is looking to grow US exports into China markets. SO, the US pledges oil, white water reactors,and food to a Nation that builds Nuclear bombs to sell to people that do like the west and they keep the food for their military.
Hows Vermont doing these days???
Really, I do like helping people in the world. Giving aid to the N. Koreans is stupid. Every time the west bends, they take. If the US keeps going down this road of appeasement, China will own the US. The US has ramped China well on its way to produce its own intellectual property by 2020 and well on in the future. I tread the day that China no longer needs the US. China does not need US exports when they can do it themselves. Debt is not the only thing today's generation is handing to its children.
Obama does not want to export US goods, he wants to OFF-SHORE THE AMERICAN DREAM.
You want Corporate America to pay their taxes? Then BUY AMERICAN and skip Congress.
Well B, I suppose you're what
Well B, I suppose you're what happens when you use the Pentagon as a travel agent.
Speaking of allies, hey, the
Speaking of allies, hey, the turkish navy may soon be outside Gaza: http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/report-turkey-seeking-strategic-...
Now thats going to be one hot potato/potatoe...
Opps.... leaky leaky. Whow,
Opps.... leaky leaky. Whow, a US paper knocked the legs out from under her.
Got a feeling she will be stoking more checks.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=un-report-leak-spoils-last--dit...
Davutoðlu met with Clinton in Paris on Thursday, shortly before an international meeting about Libya, and informed her of the steps Turkey was planning to take regarding Israel. Clinton, who was already closely following the negotiations between Israel and Turkey, then made a final offer to defer Ankara’s statement, as it would amount to a serious breakdown in already-strained relations between the two Mediterranean countries.
Clinton suggested requesting from the U.N. secretary-general a month-long extension for the final presentation of the Palmer report. In turn, Davutoðlu said Turkey was ready to wait until the end of September, provided Ban accepted the request. The Turkish side then concluded there was no need to return to Ankara and issue a formal statement, since the report would not be presented Friday.
Just as things seemed to be cooling down and the meeting on Libya had just begun, the New York Times published the entire report on its website. The U.S. delegation at the meeting was the first to receive news of the leak, and they consequently relayed this information to the Turkish side. Davutoðlu then expressed his discomfort regarding the leak to both Ban and Clinton, and said it was now out of question to postpone Turkey’s statement about the suspension of relations with Israel.
I just came back from my
I just came back from my doctor's office, and he told me not to eat anything that's white, ie white bread, white salt, white sugar, white rice, basically she said anything white is no good for me. Isn't this reverse racism?
Was she a Psychiatrist Roy ?
Was she a Psychiatrist Roy ?
Depends an where she was
Depends an where she was coming from Roy.
Was she just fresh off a fishing trip?
I don't know but I'm a black
I don't know but I'm a black man and I love white pussy, and my momma's always told me these were hazardous to my health. So your doctor maybe be on to something here, Roy. Stay away from Courtney M.'s that's the biggest teasingest white pussy if I'd ever see one.
Roy, my staple is quinoa. I
Roy, my staple is quinoa. I eat this with everything pretty much. When I'm in the box, I get my wife to send me tons of these, which she gets from Costco. I agree with your doctor, as white in food usually means over processed. I also suggest where ever you're stationed to grow lemon grass, it's a weed and is really easy to grow anywhere, stick it in the ground and you got lemon grass. Boil and make tea, drink daily.
Quinoa and Lemon Grass will do wonders for your health, my troops are very happy with these. And for our DHA Omega-3 which keeps my troops sharp and mentally well, I have contact with a local distributor from home to get us Nordic Naturals ' Ultimate Omega (1000 mg X 2 daily).
For civilians out there, preparing care packages, please include quinoa, lemon grass and Nordic Natural's ultimate omega, very easy to send and will keep our troops healthy and smiling, while we fight a worthless, no benefits to us, war.
I generally take a very
I generally take a very jaundiced view of books that emerge from Washington Post columns I have already read, but Dana Priest's "Top Secret America: The Rise of the New American Security State" surprised, engages, and out-performs the columns by such a leap that I have to rate it at six stars (10% of what I read and review), and call it a nation-changing book.
Early on the book captures me in a way the columns did not--this is a book with integrity. It is a book that sees the corruption in Washington and the inter-play of political fears of losing elections and the need to arouse public fears of the unknown. It is not just a book about the massive waste of taxpayer expenditures on a security state that harms more than it hurts, it is a book about loyal, sensible employees who are anguished at the idiocy of what they are asked to do, and in the many cases of those who broke ranks to speak to the authors, eager to have the public know the truth of the matter.
This is a book that seeks to arouse the public to do its duty, to have a conversation, to demand of the politicians in Washington a serious conversation, a serious assessment, of what it is we are about--as a nation, and with this pervasive security state program.
This is also a book that demonstrates how much can be known through Open Source Intelligence (OSINT), something I have spent over 20 years championing, with one book recently standing out as a manifesto for change in how we do intelligence. I refer to Hamilton Bean's book, with a Foreword by Senator Gary Hart, No More Secrets: Open Source Information and the Reshaping of U.S. Intelligence (Praeger Security International). I could not bring myself to give that book six stars, but in the light of this book, certainly suggest that the two together could be, should be, a wake up call for any citizen with a brain. Our leaders in Washington STINK, our so-called experts are WRONG, our pundits and commentators are CORRUPT, and no one now running for President--with the exception of Gary Johnson, former Governor of New Mexico being banned from the Republican debates--is telling the public the truth, in part because none of them know what the truth is.
To my surprise, what strikes me on page after page of this book is the innate sense of ethics that the authors bring to the work, and the ethics of the many people they interviewed who KNOW that what they are doing is insane, often illegal by our own standards, and certainly dysfunctional.
Although I have always known that we have over 1000 "compartments" about Top Secret with "bigot lists" from 3 to zillions, this book provides for the first time (this was not in the columns) a good solid look at just how insanely out of control all of this stuff is. Neither the Director of National Intelligence, by his own admission, nor the Secretary of Defense, by his own admission, have a clue about the full scope or how to get a grip on it.
CIA comes across as cavalier again and again, while the Department of Defense comes across as inept and out of touch. The authors make much of the 9/11 Commission's findings that despite the fact that George Tenet "declared war" on Al Qaeda, no one in CIA or in the Department of Defense actually took that seriously, and frankly, I don't blame them. We should have been focused on our domestic enemies and the policies that make us hated by Muslims around the world, something the former MI-5 Chief, Lady Eliza Manningham-Buller, has recently slammed, starting with the illegitimate invasion of Iraq and runninig up to the illegitimate subversion of Libya.
As I work my way through the middle of the book I have what can only be described as a queasy stomach. I am a former spy. I held Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Clearances for 30 years. They were taken away from me in 2006 and I am about to file a major legal action against both the Defense Office of Hearings and Appeals (DOHA) which has never provided me with a Statement of Reasons for declining to restore the clearances, and the Defense Intelligence Agency, for age discrimination in refusing to consider me for over 35 jobs, all of which I kept track of, including four that were cancelled when I was found to be the only qualified candidate. This massive alternative secret government is OUT OF CONTROL, without Constitutional or checks and balance oversight, and a danger to the Republic second only to the Wall Street crime families and the two-party system that shakes them down for campaign funding.
"Wasteful redundancy" is a recurring phrase in this book, but toward the end there is a shift toward "pathological cancer" (my term). The book is devastatingly damning of the Northern Command (NORTHCOM) and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) including the Transportation Security Agency (TSA)--any President serious about cutting the budget would start there and then work there way across the secret world (cut it back to $20 billion from $90 billion) and "defense" which should be cut back to $300 billion from $900 billion plus.
The authors do a fine job of addressing the "false economy" of using contractors (quoting Mark Lowenthal) as the same time that the document the magnitude of our insanity in continuing to spend 70% of our secret budget on contractors. For more details on this outrage, see Spies for Hire: The Secret World of Intelligence Outsourcing. The authors touch on, but do not go deeply enough into, the continuing outrage of the contractors we pay using our money to strip our government agencies of the best and the brightest. I will go on record now: if it is every up to me, and you resign to go to work for a contractor, you lose your clearance and start over and it will not be fast in coming back. I am just sick at the mis-management that continues because the top leaders lack the spine to get it right.
My stomach turns again as I read about how the US Government, in our name, can decide to assassinate someone simply because a bureaucracy makes a determination that they "pose a current and ongoing threat to the United States and therefore meet(s) the legal criteria for lethal action pursuant to the Presidential Finding." This is SICK, and even worse when we take out truck drivers taking a dump on the side of the road. There is no integrity and no intelligence in all of this, and I for one hope that 2012 produces a presidential candidate with the brains to tell the truth and the balls to make it stick. What we are doing is a cancer. It is wrong, it is unsustainable at multiple levels, and it should lead to courts-martial and International Tribunal hearings.
The authors do a better job than anyone in recent history on Joint Special Operations Group (JSOG), and this is certainly worth reading, but I for one am not at all convinced that they killed Bin Laden. According to former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Steve Pieczenik, Bin Laden died of marfan in 2001, and that tracks with everything I have heard. My personal speculation, based on my deep knowledge of CIA, is that they set up a safehouse with a patsy for JSOG to come in and kill (while making a real mess), and then deep-sixed the body (pun intended) because they knew it would not stand up to scrutiny. They tell the CIA story about getting the courier, when in fact another story is that a Pakistani officer gave up Bin Laden to claim the $25 million, and I for one cannot know what the truth is without a deep honest investigation such as our government is incapable of producing. What I do know is that I cannot believe CIA or the White House or Congress or the media, that is the "root" problem that this book lays out for all to consider.
The book is a tad naive in accepting at face value some of the claimed attacks by Al Qaeda--the USS Cole, for example, as with the Underpants Bomber of more recent vintage, and the exploding ink cartridges on UPS flights, are in my view far more likely to be Israeli Mossad false flag operations, perhaps declared to one or two US officials who believe devoutly that mind warfare demands that the US people be "tuned up" despite the fact that this is explicitly forbidden by Congress.
Color photos are includes, which is a very nice touch, but I am extremely disappointed to not see appendices with the names, no doubt because there are so many of them. I was hoping for a stand-alone reference. At the end there are pointers to the online databases that one hopes will be maintained. In my view--surely not a popular view within this sick secret world--I believe we need to have the same kind of citizen concern about secret facilities that we do about child molesters. Both are pernicious and both undermine society.
The book ends, rather appropriately, by confirming that since Obama took office, nothing has changed. We are in Bush-Cheney III (Lite).
I have one major list of books reviews on intelligence that I offer to those who would like to learn more by reading summaries of the investigations of others--my own books are here on Amazon and also free online, and I have been glad to see "the" book, On Intelligence: Spies and Secrecy in an Open World making a come-back, at the same time that the world "integrity" is the single most frequently searched term at Phi Beta Iota the Public Intelligence Blog. Search for this one list to get right to it: < Worth a Look: Book Reviews on Intelligence (Most) >.
Within my ten book limit, here are seven books that I offer for additional reading.
Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA
Web of Deceit: The History of Western Complicity in Iraq, from Churchill to Kennedy to George W. Bush
The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11
Vice: Dick Cheney and the Hijacking of the American Presidency
9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA, Fourth Edition
Rule by Secrecy: The Hidden History That Connects the Trilateral Commission, the Freemasons, and the Great Pyramids
Nation of Secrets: The Threat to Democracy and the American Way of Life
God Bless America--America the Beautiful that is, and the good people trapped in a bad system that do what they can to get by and when they can, help reporters such as these authors devise a "best truth" for presentation to the public. Many will not understand the depth of my passion for reconstructing America as a Smart Nation and drop-kicking most of secrecy into the tar-pits of history, but I have paid dues, and I believe that my forthcoming book, Manifesto for Truth: Expanding the Open Source Revolution, will help bury the American security state that is evil incarnate, a stain on our national honor, and an obstacle to our achieving a prosperous nation at peace.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/topsecretamerica/ (Watch it!!!)
What?
What?
I was just discussing Libya
I was just discussing Libya with some Labour Party apparatchniks, and they thought it went very well, a bit over budget. That may be an interesting angle to pursue if youre around here these days. Looking forward to seeing some written musings on our beloved scandinavian motherland... Also, would love to hear you more general assessment about US ambassadors, and how that function is handled by strange presidential donors.
>I was just discussing Libya
>I was just discussing Libya with some Labour Party apparatchniks, and they thought it went very well, a bit over budget.
I just threw up in my mouth a little.
I was just discussing Libya
I was just discussing Libya with some Labour Party apparatchniks, and they thought it went very well, a bit over budget.
High Fives?
Has the Fat Lady sang?
Mission Accomplished was a hit?
The world is waiting for a government and an economy that provides jobs for the people in Libya that is sustainable. Only then will Libyans put their guns away.
B, was it tasty?
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